Birth Matters Podcast, Ep 127 - A Faith-Filled Home Waterbirth: Doula Ann’s 2nd Birth

In this episode, Lisa reconnects with Ann Morris—doula, childbirth educator, and mother of two—to hear the powerful story of her second birth: a planned home birth after a positive hospital experience. Ann shares why she chose midwifery care, how her husband became her “moula,” and how she prepped mentally, spiritually and physically for a peaceful, water birth at home. From laborade popsicles to Christian hypnobirthing to postpartum healing and navigating breastfeeding challenges, Ann offers tips and emotional insight into birth, motherhood, and trusting your intuition. A must-listen for anyone planning a home birth, considering birth work, or seeking inspiration for informed, empowered choices. If you haven’t heard her first birth story, you can listen to that way back in Episode 25.

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Episode Topics:

Guest Introduction

  • Ann Morris: Former student, doula, and mother of two.

  • Personal journey: From New York City to Florida, then Georgia.

  • First birth in a hospital (NYC, 2018), second birth at home (Florida).

Conception & Pregnancy

  • 4-year age gap between children.

  • Quick conception, smooth pregnancy overall.

  • Decision to choose home birth due to midwifery model appeal.

  • Swollen ankles and varicose veins in third trimester.

  • Experience with pregnancy massage for discomfort relief.

Home Birth Planning

  • Early hire of midwife team (Life Song Midwifery).

  • Importance of early booking due to demand.

  • Previous doula experience with chosen midwife.

  • Husband (Deemo) as primary support person/"moula."

  • Decision against hiring a doula for second birth due to space and support needs.
    Inclusion of a birth photographer to normalize home birth.

Late Pregnancy Preparation

  • Techniques to encourage engagement (forward-leaning inversions, extended puppy pose, high-knee walks, deep squats).
    Weekly midwife check-ins confirming baby’s engagement.

  • Early labor signs: cramping, mucous plug, and nesting.

  • Final family dinner before labor started.

Labor & Birth

  • Early labor activities and atmosphere (twinkle lights, affirmations).

  • Husband inflating birth pool, setting up space.

  • Timeline and escalation of labor.

  • Birth team arrival coordination.

  • Use of laborade popsicles (homemade electrolyte drinks).
    Labor support from midwife and photographer.

  • Water birth: Husband joins in the tub for physical/emotional support.
    Natural rupture of membranes (water breaking).

  • Controlled, slower pushing to avoid tearing.
    Hemorrhoids during pushing—unexpected challenge.

  • Birth of baby boy, Maverick.

Immediate Postpartum

  • Use of herbal tinctures (Hemhalt, Placenta Ease) to prevent hemorrhage.

  • Decision to birth placenta on bed for blood loss monitoring.

  • Minimal tearing (first-degree), no stitches needed.

  • Afterpains during breastfeeding and use of After Ease tincture and over-the-counter meds.

  • Cleaning, herbal peri bottle, and first shower.

  • Newborn exam in-home by midwife team.

  • Emotional moment when older son met his new baby brother the next morning.

Postpartum Healing and Family Adjustment

  • Implementation of the 5-5-5 rest rule (5 days in bed, 5 on bed, 5 near bed).

  • Accepting help and hiring a postpartum doula.

  • Smooth transition for older child (4 years old) with activities and "divide and conquer" parenting.

  • Reflection on smoother recovery compared to first birth.

  • Importance of slowing down and accepting help.

Breastfeeding Journey

  • Initial challenges due to tongue tie and latch pain.

  • Lactation consultant home visits covered by insurance.

  • Use of chiropractic care, craniosacral therapy, and myofascial massage for baby.

  • Successful breastfeeding by 3–4 weeks postpartum.

Reflections on Birth Work & Support

  • Contrast between home birth and hospital care models.

  • The value of female support and emotional energy during birth.

  • Informed consent and body autonomy during labor (e.g., declining cervical check).

  • Birth photographer’s emotional and spiritual support.

  • Faith-filled Childbirth/Christian Hypnobirthing app and course (includes scripture-based affirmations and relaxation tools).

  • Laborade popsicle recipe (to be added to show notes).

  • After Ease tincture for afterpains.

  • Emphasis on preparing resources before birth (LC, body workers, childbirth ed).

Final Advice from Ann

  • Follow your God-given intuition.

  • Do your research, ask hard questions.

  • Don’t settle for care that doesn’t align with your values.

  • Be empowered to make informed, confident choices.

Interview Transcript

Lisa: Today I am so excited to have a former student of mine and a fellow doula since then, and a mom of two who relocated from New York City to Florida and then to Georgia, I believe. I just learned the Georgia part. So welcome Ann Morris. Hi. How are you doing today?

Ann: Hi. I am doing so well. Thank you for having me on, Lisa, it's just so good to reconnect with you in this way. 

Lisa: I was so thrilled to hear from you and to reconnect and I, while I have read your blog birth story, second birth story, I was delighted by it. I am equally excited or even more excited to hear it 'cause it's, different things come out in that and it's always just so fun to hear the verbal sharing of it and, to c to just honor, Second rite of passage Yes. Into becoming a mother of two. So yeah. What would you like to start with? Just reflecting on any, anything on your conception or pregnancy journey this time? Anything on, how you chose to give birth in a different setting the second time? any of those things.

Ann: Sure. So there was about a four year age gap between our two children. So we waited a significant amount of time to start trying for another baby. but when we did start trying, we got pregnant pretty quickly, I'd say. It only took us a couple months. and yeah, we were so excited and thrilled, to find out what we were expecting again.

The pregnancy itself was really smooth overall, going into it. Even before I found out I was pregnant, I knew I wanted to go for a home birth this time. Like Lisa mentioned earlier, I became a doula, after the birth of my first son who was born in a hospital in New York City. Back in 2018, and that experience was very positive overall.

I had an OB, I had a very quick labor for a first time mom and my postpartum experience overall was pretty positive. However, in the interim of becoming a doula and attending lots of different types of births, both in New York and in Florida, I just really came to be drawn.

To the idea of home birth and, I just loved the midwifery model of care. I just loved how personalized it was for each individual mama. I loved how long the appointments were. gosh, every one of my appointments was upwards of 45 minutes to an hour each time. they were Just, easy to talk to.

I felt so at ease. It almost felt like a home-like setting, being in the office every single time I looked forward to my appointments, genuinely did. and I just really felt so cared for. and so yeah, that was the model that I went with the second time around. and I was so happy I did.

There were a few things during pregnancy that came up the second time around that were new for me. I remember I started to get some swollen ankles around the third trimester, which was really difficult. 'cause I was still working at the time. But it forced me to slow down a bit. I also had some varicose veins pop up on the back of my legs, which I was pregnant during, I was pregnant in Florida and so we're constantly wearing shorts and so that was hard for me. I just had to get over it 'cause there wasn't really much I could do about it. It was all out of my control. But yeah, I was thinking that you couldn't,

Lisa: With probably the heat, I'm guessing compression stocking kind of stuff was not an option.

Were there any remedies for you? 

Ann: Not really. I got a few pregnancy massages throughout the course of my pregnancy, and I noticed when I got massages she would massage on the back of my legs, like it would help a little bit, but they always came back, like it was just a temporary fix. And so yeah, I didn't really find much that helped, and they've stayed since then, Lisa. They haven't gone away. So that's just one lovely mark of pregnancy on me, our honor badges. Yeah, for real. but overall, my pregnancy is really smooth. I feel like my body just handles pregnancy quite well.

I don't even really deal with too much nausea in the first trimester. I deal with a little bit of food aversions here and there, but. Overall it was a really smooth pregnancy. 

Lisa: Nice. And, so at what, so did you hire a home birth midwife, at the beginning of pregnancy or when did that happen, if you remember?

Ann: Yes. So in Florida, especially where we used to live in Sarasota, Florida, the home birth midwives filled up so quickly because they're in such high demand. Ah, and so I had, I had worked with different home birth midwives, as a doula. And so I'd like already known ahead of time who I would like to hire.

Lisa: I figured. Great. Nice. 

Ann: Yeah, when I became pregnant and so yeah, we hired on life song midwifery. Shout out to Chris. In, we hired them around five or six weeks. And that was like the norm, like if you waited any longer, that you probably weren't gonna get a spot because they only take a certain number of spots per month, in order to, just be sustainable and not overwork themselves.

So it was just a wonderful introduction to the midwifery model of care.

Like I said, very different than, the traditional OB practice. 

Lisa: And Deemo, your husband is, he was your moula, right? Yes. So you didn't have a doula. I love that. Reading the birth story. 

Ann: Yeah. The moula. He came up with that name. So sweet. Yeah. We did not end up hiring a doula the second time around.

I did hire one the first time around. Thanks to you and your class. I didn't know what they were. and I hired one on very late, my pregnancy for my first son. but the second time around, no, I didn't. We had a very small two bedroom apartment in downtown Sarasota, and so we were already anticipating having the midwife and then the birth assistant or like the midwife assistant.

So that's two people, my husband. And then, we wanted to also have a birth photographer because I wanted to help normalize home birth a little bit more by being able to share my story. And yeah, that was four people. And like I said, our room was very small and I just felt like that was enough people there to support me.

Lisa: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes total sense. 

Ann: Yeah. 

Lisa: Great. Anything else you wanna share about pregnancy before you launch into the birth story? 

Ann: I think that was it. Great. 

Lisa: Yeah, well go right ahead.

Ann: Sure. I feel like it makes the most sense for me to start around the 39 week mark, because that's when I started to actively start to take steps towards encouraging baby to come. And I had my 39 week checkup with Life Song, and she would always touch my belly, feel baby and figure out which position he was in at every single appointment. And it was at that appointment that she told me, He hadn't engaged yet, which was fine. That's pretty typical around 39 weeks. But she said at this point, like you can start to do things to encourage him to engage. And I say him. But at the time we did not know the gender. and so we didn't know if it was a boy or a girl, but I'm saying him because it is a boy.

Lisa: And just for listeners who aren't familiar with home birth, that model, most of the time people who are giving birth at home don't. They can, if they want to, find out what the gender is, but most of the time people just leave it as a surprise. 

Yeah, it's fun. At least that's been my experience in the New York City area and what you're sharing.

Ann: Yeah, it definitely is fun. Our reason for wanting to wait was, just because, there's very few actual surprises left in life and so we just wanted to wait and find out. So it was fun. And so yeah, at my 30, after my 39 week appointment, Kristen had recommended that I do a forward leaning inversion every day, for the next week. And so if you're not familiar with what a forward leaning inversion is, it's not super comfortable, especially when you're that pregnant and you have such a big belly. And it's always recommended that you have a partner next to you when you do it. But you basically get on your knees on the edge of a couch and you put either like a yoga mat or like a rug or something comfortable on the ground right underneath you, and then you really slowly lower yourself down onto your elbows.

With your butt up high. And like I said, always have somebody next to you just to make sure you stay balanced. But I did that every single day and the point of that was to help just give baby more room in order to get him or her into the best position possible. and so I did that every day and it was just a laughing matter every single time 'cause I looked ridiculous doing it.

But, it did help. I was also seeing a chiropractor at the time. I told my chiropractor that I was doing these forward-leaning inversions to help him to engage, and she offered her suggestions as well. And so in addition to doing the forward-leaning inversions, I also did extended puppy pose, high knee walks and deep squats.

And, so all of that together, did wonders. and so at the next appointment, the 40 week appointment, a week went by and Kristen checked my belly and immediately, like when she touched me, she was like, oh, yep, he's engaged. He's definitely in a better position now. So it was cute, before I left, she said, listen, I have one mom that's at 41 and six, so she's gotta go before you do.

Okay. Like just. Gimme a couple days, and I was like, okay. I jokingly laughed, but little did we know he had a mind of his own. And, we were on his timeline. So it was actually on that same day that I was doing some like last minute preparations. So I remember I left that appointment and I went to the store.

And I did some returns and I was in the store while I was having some cramping. I wanna say I used the word cramping, but they were definitely like early labor contractions. But to me, in my body, they felt like cramps. I remember I was like standing in the line and I was like, I need to go home.

What am I doing? So I went home and Father's Day was a couple days from then, so I went home and I was like writing some Father's Day cards and just sitting on my ball, like rocking back and forth. And I continued to feel the cramps. And at this point I had been to enough births, enough home births that I knew that if I wanted to have a water birth that I needed to have the pool, like pretty much all the way set up and just out of the way, in order to get my home, my water birth, because I had seen a couple of moms actually, not have their birth pool prepped and their babies just, I included. 

Lisa: That's me too.

Ann: Oh, really? 

Lisa: Yep. With my second one inch of water before. I was upstairs calling Brian to come catch the baby with me. Yeah. 

Ann: Oh no. 

Lisa: So when I read that I was like, yeah, I was like, I don't know if she knows my story, but I'm one of those people. 

Ann: I didn't know that. 

Lisa: Yeah, that's a bummer. But our midwife gave us a partial refund on the rental, so that was nice.

Ann: Oh. There you go. 

Lisa: Anyway, so yeah, your story. Go ahead. 

Ann: No, all good. If you, so there you go. If you're planning to have a water birth, highly recommend around thirty seven, thirty eight weeks. Blow that pool up, make sure there's no holes in it. Make sure you have the correct. pump for it. make sure you have the right connector for the hose For whatever water source you're using, because something that we had to work through around 38 weeks was, making sure that our hose connector fit properly on our shower. And actually the one that we had was not the correct one, so I'm so thankful we did that because my husband literally had to go to the store and find the correct one.

and so he wouldn't, there's no way I would've gotten my water birth if he, if we wouldn't have done that. Yeah. And yeah. Okay. back to 40 weeks. And then I should also preface too, I remember that morning before my 40 week appointment, I had woken up and, Like parts of my uterine seal were in the toilet.

And so that was like another indicator that things could be happening within the next day or so. And yeah, so I was on the ball, just, breathing through, like not really. Uncomfortable yet. but just knew like things were moving. and it was on that day, I mentioned my husband, I said, I think things are gonna happen within the next day.

And he was like, okay. Like, why don't we go to dinner like just the three of us tonight. it'll be like our last hurrah as the three of us. And We did. I always tell my clients like early labor's all about distraction anyway,we went out to dinner. It was pretty close by our house, like 10 minutes away, so I felt comfortable doing so.

But I remember at this point like I was starting to have to like breathe through them. I would say they were probably about every 10 minutes at this point, the contractions. and so they were getting a little bit more regular and a little bit more intense as they were happening. We ate, and we had a really nice time at dinner.

It was just really sweet and we were just thinking about the future, as a family. And our son was four, newly four at the time. And yeah, we were just telling him how excited we were for him to become a big brother and that in the morning, like he might wake up and have a sibling and, so yeah, it was just, it was really sweet.

We came home and my husband put our son to bed. And, it was then that I went into our room and we had put up some twinkly lights in our room and we had, at my baby shower, my,the people that came, so like friends and family, they had written me little notes of encouragement.

And so I had those hung up on the wall and it was really sweet to just read those reminders as I was breathing through the waves and yeah. Things were definitely starting to move along for sure. I remember like I was really finally able to like, relax once my husband Deemo had put our son to sleep.

and I was just really able to start to focus and go inward. At this point, I would say the contractions were about every four to five minutes. and yeah, so I was using the birthing ball. I was doing a lot of swaying and rocking. I was very much vertical, like most of the time, like standing up was very helpful.

unless I wanted to take a break and I was back on the ball. but at this point, like I told emo like, we need to set up the birthing pool, have it ready. So all we need to do is turn on the water. And so he did that. And after our son was asleep, he turned the hot water heater all the way up.

He put the tarp down. He pumped up the pool just like a little bit more, filled it up. And I would say around nine 30 is when my husband made the first call to our birth team, because he started to notice like. That they were getting more intense and that I was needing him to be by my side through every single one.

And so he called our birth team, which consisted of, like I mentioned, the birth photographer and then the midwife and, They asked okay, are you ready for us to come? And I said, no, not yet. I think we still have some time. just, be on call. But, I think we have a little bit more time before you guys can come and I remember like in between that phone call and then the next phone call there was like a two or three minute long contraction. And I was just like, I feel like this contraction is never ending. This is crazy. And so I think it was like 15, 20 minutes went by and my husband made a second call and he was like, yeah, I think it's time. 

Lisa: Just kidding. Yeah. 

Ann: Yeah. And both of them were already getting ready 'cause they knew this was the second one maybe.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And your first one was quite fast too, right? So Yes. 

Ann: Yes. 

Lisa: Good you planned a home birth. 

Ann: Yes. that was nine fifty five was like the second phone call. and yeah, the birth photographer arrived first. She lived a little closer than the midwives did. and so she arrived around 10 20 or so.

And I just remember when she walked into the room, like her female presence was just so wonderful. And I just remember I like embraced her. I probably cried a little bit and I was just like, I'm so glad you're here. And she encouraged me and she told me, you're so beautiful. you're doing so good.

She gave me such words of affirmation and it was just, it was really wonderful. just the female presence, like how powerful it is in the birth space. Not that my husband's not wonderful, he had been doing an amazing job supporting me, but it just goes to show there's something to be said about being supported by another woman or women during labor. 

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. That female energy is, yeah, very different. 

Ann: Yes, for sure. So that was very reinvigorating, her presence just coming into the room. Like it added that extra boost of energy that I needed to continue on. and then the midwives arrived around like 10: 50 or so.

and so when they got there, they had all their stuff, all their supplies with them. and so she immediately. Got to work, like setting up all that stuff. And,utilizing the items I had purchased from the birth kit, she checked my vital signs, which everything looked good. She checked on the baby, he sounded great.

and she also asked me if I wanted to have a cervical check. And, I had known that was an option. We had talked about it during my pregnancy, but I wasn't required or anything to have one. And so I declined actually having one. 

Lisa: Can we contrast that real quick to what we usually hear in a hospital? I'm gonna check your cervix is usually what people hear, right? And it sounds like it's not an option. often it feels like there's not much informed consent happening there. Yeah. So I just, I love hearing that you had the option Of the cervical check. Beautiful.

Ann: Totally. 

Yeah, for sure. And they just really followed my lead, like there was no like pressuring me to get into any particular position or anything like that. It was just very hands off. But also I felt very cared for in the sense that I knew that they had checked on my vital signs.

I knew they had checked on my baby, and that both of us were looking good and we were still a great candidate for a home birth. And we were just gonna continue on. And we knew that there was a big, the big hospital in Sarasota, five minutes down the road. So if at any point. We felt like labor was not, being tolerated well by the baby or if I needed extra support.

Like we knew that was an option right down the road. but at this point we could continue on. And I. It was around, I wanna say 11: 10 or so, when I think I started to hit that transition phase. I felt like at this point, the contractions were really back to back, really intense.

and I needed the water at this point to cope, during the birth of my first son, I labored in the shower for as long as possible before heading to the hospital, and I just remember that was like the best thing I could have ever done. I did not wanna get out of that water at all. They say, water is nature's epidural.

And so I knew the second time around I was going to utilize the water as well. But I wanted it to be like a last resort thing. I wanted to do everything else first, and then at the last possible second I wanted to get in the water. And that's when my husband started to fill up the tub.

and at that point I remember our room, like I mentioned it was quite small. And so because of the hot water filling up the room started to get pretty warm. However, with our son sleeping like in the other room, we had to keep the door shut as much as we could. 'cause we wanted him to continue sleeping.

and At that point, I was like, oh, like I need something to help with this heat. And so I remember I had made these, like laborade popsicles. I had found a recipe from my friend who's also a doula. She had sent me the recipe and I turned the laborade into popsicles. And it was so refreshing to have one in that moment.

It came in. 

Lisa: I saw that in one of the pictures. 

Ann: Yeah, it came in clutch. It was awesome. Yeah, it was like, I wanna say it was like coconut water, a little bit of Honey Himalayan sea salt. I can give you the recipe for the show notes. I would love it. Yeah. If the listeners wanna re make it. 

Lisa: Yeah. 'cause I'm curious.

It sounds similar to switch another, like Nature's Gatorade laborade, but a little different. Similar, but similar in the types that, that one is ginger, maple syrup, water. Sometimes people fancy it up with some, some, berries or something, but Yeah, I would love that recipe. Thanks. 

Ann: Yeah. It was like,

Lisa: I’ll include it in the show notes. 

Ann: Perfect. Yeah, no, it was like the perfect distraction while I was waiting for the birth pool to fill up. So super thankful I had that. and then when the tub was finally filled up, I slowly got in, with my husband's help and, oh my gosh.

I just immediately relaxed when I got into that tub and my water had not broken yet. And about within five minutes, like maybe less honestly, my water broke and it was just like the craziest feeling and I was like, oh, my water just broke. And yeah, from then on it was like game on. I remember like I had started out on my hands and knees.

In the tub and that position did not prove to be very helpful. I was so uncomfortable in that position. And when Kristen, my midwife, noticed that I was not liking that position, she recommended that I have my husband and join me in the tub. so that I can essentially lean back into him because even though we had.

the mini birth pool, there was still quite a bit of room left in the tub and he was all for it. we hadn't really talked about it beforehand, so I love that in the moment he was just like, spontaneously heck yes, let's do this. so he threw on some board shorts really quick and he got in the tub and then I leaned back into him and it was like.

So much better. I've just felt like so much more like steady, and grounded, as he was kinda like holding me up plus that 

Lisa: oxytocin flowing from the cuddling, the physical touch. No, totally. 

Ann: Yeah, absolutely. No, it was great. I remember just the atmosphere of the room was so peaceful.

Throughout the labor, I was going back and forth between listening to the Christian Hypnobirthing app and then, like the tracks on the app. And then I was also listening to a labor, worship playlist that I had made on Spotify and. The room was just so peaceful. It was just, it was beautiful, it was wonderful.

And, at this point, labor was super intense and I was needing all the support from my team. it was just, all hands on deck at that point. I remember like pretty much immediately after my water broke, my body just inadvertently started to bear down. So like at the peak of each contraction, I felt myself starting to push.

And I knew the second time around that I really wanted to have a slower pushing stage. With my first son in the hospital, I remember there was just like this huge adrenaline rush when I found out that I was like 10 centimeters and there were all these people around me and they were encouraging me to push, push.

And I pushed him out with three contractions and then I ended up tearing, second degree tear. So I knew the second time around, like I wanted to take it slower and I wanted to just let my body have the time it needed to open and stretch and hopefully minimize tearing as much as possible.

and so that's what I did. Even though it was really intense, I found the pushing stage the second time around to be the most challenging part, by far, I know some women, they get to the pushing stage and they're like, oh, I felt so much like relief, like feeling like I could be productive, having an active role, at that point.

But for me, I was just like, oof no, this is like the hard part. And so yeah, I'd say after about 45 minutes from the time, like my water broke, is when he really descended. And, at that point, like I remember, there was like one big push and the birth assistant said, okay, the head is out. And I was like, oh my gosh.

Thank God. Because that was like, I'd say the hardest part. And, then after the next contraction, the rest of his body was born. And, I'm just so thankful, so relieved. And I will also say before I continue on with the rest of like postpartum, something that really surprised me during my second birth was that from the first birth I had developed some hemorrhoids from pushing so hard, the only time throughout the entire pregnancy that those reared their face again, was during those final moments of pushing. And it sucked. Oh, it was rough. I remember that was something so totally unexpected because you expect all of the pain and discomfort to be in your vagina.

There's pressure there. A lot of pressure there. There was stretching. There was, yes. Yes, absolutely. However, for me, I was like. Oh, okay. I don't even care about that at this point because it was like the hemorrhoids, like on my butt that That was super uncomfortable. I just remember saying it out loud, what the heck? My butt hurts so bad. and 

Lisa: Yeah, I thank you for being willing to be open with this on the podcast because People need to hear the possibility of the range of normal, so I appreciate it. 

Ann: Exactly. That's why I share, because yeah. There's no shame, I don't know.

I'm so open, if anybody listening has any. Like tips for future births, like how to like, prevent that from happening. I'm all ears. Because yeah, that was just, that was not super fun, but We got through it. Thank God. he was born, the birth assistant lifted him up out of the water.

I had no plans about who was catching him. Honestly, I didn't really have a preference. and so she ended up being right there and she caught him and. She lifted him out of the water to put him on my chest, and I saw his man parts and I was like, oh, he's another boy.

and so that was a really cool moment. I was so relieved and thankful that he was here and healthy. and I remember, something that the home birth midwife team, this one in particular, at least, they, something they did like to help prevent postpartum hemorrhage was they did a Little like herbal tincture, by mouth, like right after the birth of the baby.

And so I remember like after he was born, they immediately gave me, it was, Hemhalt, I believe it was Hemhalt is the name of the herb. and maybe one other one. Placenta Ease, I think. and so yeah, that was, I was not expecting that, honestly. That was one thing I hadn't really I don't think it talked about too much, like the timing of it.

And that was given to me by mouth and it was fine. I wasn't really even paying attention to it honestly. And then after that, Kristen asked if I wanted to birth the placenta, like in the tub or, on my bed. And I really didn't have a preference for that either. And, I asked her, what's your opinion on that?

What do you typically see? And she said that she has an easier time kind of telling how much blood has been lost when the placenta is born outside of the tub. And so I was like, that's totally fine. Let's get out. And with the help of literally probably everybody in the room, I got out of the tub while holding the baby and transferred over to the bed, which was like two feet away.

Lisa: And just to clarify for listeners, one of a care provider's responsibilities, things they keep an eye on is how much blood is lost after birth. And so that's what Anne is talking about, that the midwife, like in the water, it gets diluted. So it's a little harder to like, quantify it, to know how much it is being lost rather than outside the water.

Ann: Absolutely. Yeah. And she basically said that, when I had asked her that question, and I was like, okay, that makes total sense. Let's do that, just to make sure I'm still doing good. And yeah, slowly made my way to the bed and got into a semi reclining position with some pillows behind me.

I was doing skin to skin with Maverick. He was still attached to the cord. and then after. I would say about 15 minutes. Kristen said, I think the placenta's ready to be born. And so then with two or three, really gentle pushes, it came out and it came out intact.

They looked it over, made sure it looked good. They also did, like a routine like, perineal inspection just to see if I needed any stitches. And, thankfully I was so thankful. I had only a minor, like first degree, scar tissue tear, from when I tore during my first son's birth.

And so I did not need any repairing at all, which I was so thankful for. 

Lisa: Amazing. Yeah. 

Ann: Yeah. The controlled pushing was all worth it for that moment. 

Lisa: Water some too, who knows? 

Ann: Absolutely. Yeah. Water definitely helps with minimizing tearing as well. And so yeah, that was like the immediate postpartum. I will say I did experience those like after birth contractions when Maverick began to latch. And I had heard that they do tend to be more intense the second time around or third time around after subsequent babies. They can be more intense. And so I prepared for that mentally, but also I had, Another like type of herbal tincture. it's called After Ease if you're not familiar with it. 

Lisa: I think I have that on my Amazon list. 

Ann: Yeah, there you go. and so you just put like a couple of drops in, in water and, yeah, it, it did help a little bit. I think at one point though, I did resort to taking some medication because they were just so intense.

And I only had to do that maybe a couple of times, because they did get more mild after like day two, day three. 

Lisa: And do you remember you, usually it's just like maybe staggering Ibuprofen and Tylenol some. When you say medication, was it something like that? 

Ann: Yeah, I don't remember which of those, it was, ibuprofen or Tylenol, but it was one of, one of those, yeah. And I'm really not a medication person, so for me to resort to taking medication, I needed it. 

And so I didn't take too much of it. But at the moment I was like, okay, I'm going through enough right now. Like I have a newborn, learning how to breastfeed again, healing from birth.

I'm gonna take this.

Lisa: Yeah. Because you don't wanna dread every feed and it's, it can be really, I remember the second time around feel, it felt like sometimes as strong contractions as labor. Contractions were 

Ann: Yeah. 

Lisa: Which is saying a lot. 

Ann: Definitely. No, I can agree to that. I was like, oh man, I thought we were done with this. And here we are again. Yeah. yeah, I would say don't feel bad if you end up taking medication to help you with that because Yeah, you did a thing, and now you should be able to, now you should be able to enjoy your baby.

Lisa: Yes. yeah.

Ann: And then after that, the birth team, they were so wonderful. They helped clean up the tub. They put it all away. They drained it and folded it all up and put it away. And then, they had been making me some postpartum herbs in the kitchen and like a crockpot. And so they put those in a peri bottle for me.

and they put it in the bathroom. And shortly after the birth of the placenta and some good skin to skin time, my husband cut the cord. And, he was able to do some skin to skin while I went and took just a quick shower. so I was able to stand up and I was able to walk a little bit to the bathroom and, just taking a shower felt so good, just get all the birthy stuff off of my body and it was just really refreshing.

And, then basically the birth team, Tucked me into bed. And, obviously they did like the newborn examination. So they weighed my son, they checked his link, they did his head circumference. What else? They checked his vitals, made sure he sounded good. They listened to his heartbeat.

They took any notes they needed to do, which was great. I just, I loved that part. It just felt so intimate. The fact that it was happening in our bedroom was just so special. and yeah, they basically then tucked me into bed and I was able to just continue nursing and Maverick fell asleep and then I fell asleep and I took probably the best nap of my life. and yeah, that was our whole birth. 

Lisa: And your son was sleeping through the whole bit? 

Ann: The whole thing? The whole bit. 

Lisa: I don't know why I said bit. Through the whole labor. 

Ann: Yes. Yeah. He slept the whole time. The birth team left probably around 3:00 AM three 30.

He woke up at his normal time, like seven or so. and then my husband went and got him and brought him into our bedroom and I'll always remember that moment. It was just like the most amazing moment. He just came in and I don't think I was holding Maverick at the time. I think he was like in his little bassinet.

And so he came over and he was like looking into the bassinet and it was just precious. He was just really gently, like touching his body and Talking to him, and it was a really precious, awesome core memory. 

Lisa: Oh, yes. Yeah. And then in the weeks and months after that, did you see any changes in behavior from your older son?

Or was there any, because a lot of times, like the older sibling will have some regression at some point or some hard feelings about this little new being who's taking away a lot of attention. 

Ann: Yeah, no, not really. Not anything noticeable really. I think it was definitely, I was nervous about the transition from one to two.

However, when I was in it, I realized that the transition from zero to one was so much harder for me. I felt like the second time around I was just like so much more confident in like my mothering and my decisions and, yeah, I just, I didn't second guess myself about everything, and it also helps too, that like in the interim I had become a doula and so I had just this like long list of like resources of people I could reach out to if,things came up, which they did and I was so glad I ended up having those resources and so I was able to utilize, the help and I had prepared for postpartum,I had hired a postpartum doula who helped me with making freezer meals and then she came over after the birth and, just helped with like little things like laundry and preparing those meals for me and bringing them to the bed and just like little things that just I are just so helpful in the moment, and to just remind me that I'm doing enough by nursing my son, that the other things like can just go by the wayside and other people can take care of them. Sometimes we need to be reminded of that as women because we try to do it all.

Lisa: You're so right 

Ann: But yeah, in regards to my son's behavior, I would say like I didn't really. I don't think we really noticed too big of a jealousy thing or anything like that. I think he was old enough, like he, he was four and so we had him in school, he had like his friends, we had him in a few camps.

My Maverick was born in the summer. And so we had different things going on for him and it was so Nice. it wasn't like, he wasn't like. Constantly home, bored, like wanting mom's attention. It was like we tried to keep him busy. Also, like my husband and I, we called it like divide and conquer.

So like at that point, like when our second was born, Deemo really took on like a lot of the responsibilities for our older son and I was like in charge of the baby and it just, it worked, for us For those first couple months and it just felt really natural and not to say like we didn't do stuff as the family of four, like of course we did.

But when it came to bedtime and preparing meals and stuff, it was just really helpful to have his support with our older son and he was able to have that quality time, one-on-one with him, which is great. 

Lisa: Nice. So helpful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing the nuances of that, because I think that really will help listeners who might either be pregnant with their first, or with, their second or thinking about a second in the future. just thinking about the spacing, how, if they wanna kind of plan that as best as we can in life. and yeah. 'cause that hadn't, ours were just shy of three years apart and so there weren't as many activities for our son as his little sister was born.

And, That, that definitely makes a difference. yeah. Thank you so much for sharing those details. 

Ann: Totally. Of course.

Lisa: Anything you wanna share on the postpartum visits from your home birth midwife? Do you remember? Like how frequently? Generally home birth midwives are really good about much more regularly following up with, just being sure the baby's doing well, being sure you're doing well, rather than the hospital, as compared to the hospital model of care. Just any reflections on that. 

Ann: So I remember like with my first, like there was like the one like a six week checkup and then you're left to figure things out with those first, first six weeks. and then, so with Life Song specifically, I'm not sure how other practices do it, but they did a 24 hour check-in. So they came back to the house 24 hours later to check in on us and then. We did an in-office visit around one week.

We were welcome to come in sooner than that if we wanted to, but we didn't really feel like we needed to come in any sooner. and so that was probably like our first big outing, I'd say. I remember we were super late to that appointment and they were like, totally, of course they were totally cool with it.

Lisa: Expecting it probably. 

Ann: Exactly. Yeah. I remember I called on the way and they were already anticipating you to be late. It's okay. It's all good. I was like, oh, thank God. Thanks for having grace for us. and so yeah, that was really wonderful. I remember, I will say like in regards to postpartum, I remember Kristen, noticed that like Maverick had, a bit of a tongue tie and so that was causing a bit of an issue with his latch. I don't know if you remember this from my first birth story, but,I had trouble with nursing, our first son and I resorted to exclusively pumping.

which I was fine with. as a first time mom and I really didn't have that setup of all those resources readily available. So I didn't really know who to turn to when I needed the help. But this time around. I had the help of an IBCLC, which was wonderful.

She accepted our insurance and so was able to do basically unlimited home visits. 

Lisa: Nice. Unlimited. Wow.

Ann: Basically, yeah. It was like a ridiculous number. Like I was probably never gonna use that many. and so yeah, she came over probably day one, postpartum, maybe day two. I can't remember exactly, but, so she assessed him and she Felt the same. And,said, you can get something like this, revised with the laser, but you could also try other things as well. And after talking about it with Deemo and praying about it, we actually decided not to go with the laser. and we wanted to try like other things first to see if That helped fix the problem. And so we had a chiropractor, I had seen all throughout my pregnancy, so she came and did a home visit. Probably day two she was able to work on our son, which was really cool. She's a Webster certified chiropractor and so she's used to working with pregnant moms and babies.

So I totally felt like I trusted her completely. very gentle techniques. I always just like to clarify that. 'cause when people hear chiropractor, the general perception is, oh, they're gonna do like aggressive cracking and stuff, and Webster technique is not that 

Lisa: Correct. Especially with babies, they respond so readily to even just a touch that like yeah. Very gentle techniques. Yeah. Yet effective it, see, it's almost like voodoo, and yet it's not, yeah. It can be. Yeah. I'd love to hear how it went for you all. 

Ann: Yeah, no, it was great. yeah, it was really wonderful for me.

'cause as I was healing from birth,my organs are all out of place and so I'm just getting more into alignment. It was just super helpful. And then, she adjusted our son and he responded well to it. I was also referred by the IBCLC to a, It was called Children's Therapy Solutions, for like myofascial massage.

So it's like on the face and like in the mouth. because I don't know if your listeners are familiar with this, but like when babies are born and they're in utero and then they go through the birthing process, they just tend to be like, like tight. they get into these wonky positions as they're moving through the birth canal.

Moving through the pelvis, they're stretching, they're,and then they're born. And,then a lot of them are diagnosed with tongue or lip ties. And a lot of times, I would say more often than not, like it can be resolved without the use of something, like a laser, I would say by doing body work like myofascial, massage or like craniosacral therapy. And also the chiropractic like. Using these different types of modalities, I would say more often than not, can help solve these problems. Maybe not solve them 100%, but can drastically make them better and improve. 

Lisa: Agree.

Ann: And so that was the route we went and I was just, again, just so thankful for these resources that we had. We went to Children's Therapy Solutions twice for the myofascial massage, and that seemed like a cranial sacral therapist. and just with all of this together, it was just wonderful.

And, by about week three or four, I would say we were in a groove. Like I was no longer experiencing pain. I could nurse him on both sides. There was no more pinching. There was no more bleeding. so I was super thankful that we had pushed through those first couple weeks because, I don't think this is talked about enough.

And so that's why I wanna share about it today. That those first days and weeks of breastfeeding can be really challenging. And yes, it's something that we were designed to do, but at the same time it's like a new dance that you're learning and your baby's learning and you're learning it together.

And some people are really blessed and it's just really easy for them from the get go. And that just was not my experience either time. And I just encourage anybody that's listening to have The lactation consultant's number, like on the fridge, like even before you have your baby.

Like just, so you have somebody in your corner if you need them, most of them do accept insurance. and so yeah, that would be like my 2 cents in regards to preparing for breastfeeding. 'cause it's really important. 

Lisa: Yeah. And I really hope that over time these other body workers will become more accessible to people.

'cause it's really frustrating to me that, whether it's the body work or an oral revision adjustment, surgical, minor surgical procedure, most of those things are out of pocket. They're out of network, and so many people can't access those things. and so that's an area where we have a lot of work to do in our country, in our healthcare system.

But like you said, at a minimum, lactation consultants, much of the time we can find someone who is in network, to support us in that way. 

Ann: Absolutely. 

Lisa: Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, that's a really, especially, with your first story, contrasted to that, to this story that's really educational for people to just compare those things and learn from. So I really appreciate you sharing that. 

Thank you. And any reflections on your healing and or mental health this time around?

Ann: So I knew I wanted to subscribe to the 5, 5, 5 rule the second time around, which if you're not familiar, you stay in the bed for the first five days postpartum, you stay on the bed for the next five days, and then you stay near the bed for those final five days. And so I did that pretty well. I would say just for a few of these like little outings for, my son's latch, I really tried to subscribe to that, because, I learned so much as I became a doula and I re and I like heard this said once that if you had this, a wound, the size of a dinner plate on the outside of your body and you were walking around and living life like normal people would look at you and be like, what the heck is wrong with you?

Go home, go to bed. But because our wound, which is the size of a dinner plate, is inside of our body, we tend to forget about it. And we just tend to try to bounce back and go to the grocery store and go for walks and do all these things right away when in reality like our bodies really need time to adjust and to slowly, go back to pre-pregnancy, I guess size, for lack of a better word.

And I really tried to take it easy. I took it day by day. my healing was. Great. I was so thankful. I didn't really tear to the degree I did, with my first, and so that was really helpful. And yeah, I just really try to take it easy and I allowed other people to help me for once in my life.

I'm normally the one helping other people, and this time around I just accepted help, and I allowed people to serve me, which is something hard for me, honestly, like it is, it's hard for me to ask for help because like I said, with just the profession that I'm in, like I'm normally the one like doing it all for everybody else.

And yeah, I was just able to rest and bond with our newborn, which is wonderful. 

Lisa: And so important like you're saying. Yeah. 

Ann: Yeah. Totally. 

Lisa: Okay, I'm so glad to hear that. Great. is there anything you haven't gotten to share that you were hoping to share? And I'd love for you to also share, like how people can get in touch with you if they're in your area in Georgia and would like, doula support, just anything you'd like to share about the specific ways that you're supporting people at this point in time. go ahead and do that. 

Ann: Yeah. I'll share quickly about a resource that I found helpful for me during my second pregnancy. I took the faith-filled childbirth course by Christian Hypnobirthing. I took it with my husband.

We would do it in the evenings after our son had gone to bed. We would knock out like 10, 15 minutes of it and it was just really great. I just felt like the course itself allowed us to open up lines of communication about the upcoming birth and it had awesome content as well.

Some of it was a review for me just 'cause of my line of work, but it was just really good for Me to experience that with my husband so that he could have a bit of a refresher, for himself. so it included like. Things like relaxation techniques, tips on overcoming fear, ways to physically prepare for birth.

And then, some research on ways to make informed decisions. And then also, I love the faith element of it as well, like how to feel more connected to God and your baby, like throughout pregnancy and labor. And yeah, I highly recommend that tool. Just, if you're a first time mom or a second time mom and you just need a little refresher course I thought it was really great.

And yeah, and I loved listening to the tracks during my pregnancy too. Not just during the birth, but I really felt if I was having a moment of oh, I'm feeling a little bit fearful, or,I'm feeling anxious about the birth or whatever, I would just turn on those tracks, and they were super, super helpful. I highly recommend that resource. And I have, I think I have a little discount code for the course, so if I can share that with you, Lisa, course, anybody, 

Lisa: I'll be happy to, yeah, I can include that in the show notes. So that's from a Protestant Christian perspective and viewpoint, right?

Ann: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Lisa: And so the Christian hypnobirthing, I'm not really, I have never checked it out. I'd like to, is it scripture affirmations or is it some scripture affirmations or just from the perspective of, the Christian faith or, 

Ann: Yeah, so she has different tracks. So there are some that include scripture, but then there are other ones that are just like positive affirmations.

So there's a good mix, I'd say. 

Lisa: Great. Thank you. 

Ann: Yeah. and then if anybody wants to,stay connected with me, I pretty much am just on Instagram right now. AnnMorrisATLdoula, and then my website is www.annmorris-doula.com. and so yeah, I am seeing clients in person, in the Atlanta area.

And then I also teach childbirth education online. So 

Lisa: You do, I don't think I realized that. Cool. 

Ann: Yeah, it's a newer thing, but yeah. 

Lisa: Wonderful. Nice. 

Ann: Yeah. 

Lisa: Great. I will be sure to include that. And Ann shares her first or shared in the past, her first birth story in episode 25, so I will link to that.

I can't believe it was that many episodes ago. I was like 25. Oh my goodness. 

Ann: What are you on now? 

Lisa: We're on ... Currently, once we air this, it'll be further down, but, like 113 just aired at the time we're recording this. Yeah. 

Ann: Aw, that's amazing. so exciting. Wow.

Lisa: Wonderful. Thank you so much. And is there any, final, I don't know, like theme or thought that you, or tip you would leave listeners with as we wrap things up?

Ann: Follow your God-given intuition. So if you are feeling a tug towards something unconventional, listen to that inner voice.

Do the research, do the hard things. Ask the hard questions to your care provider. Don't just go along with something if you don't feel a thousand percent comfortable with it. 

Lisa: Agreed. Yeah. Thank you Ann. It's lovely to see you again and thank you for the work you're doing. I, it's not common that people who I have in birth class move into birth work and doula work. So it always makes my heart sing when that happens. So yeah, lovely to reconnect and I know we will stay in touch. So thanks again. 

Ann: Absolutely. Thanks for all the amazing work you're doing, Lisa.