In today’s episode, Ann shares details of her experience giving birth for the first time. Her labor progresses more quickly than most first labors, and she explains how they called an ambulance when she thought she felt the baby’s head. She’ll describe that she was, indeed, very close to pushing upon arrival at the hospital, though not quite as far along as she had thought. After she shares her birth story, she’ll also explain how her birth inspired her to move into birth and postpartum doula work as she relocated to be closer to family in southwest Florida. She also talks a bit about her Christian faith and her favorite song for labor, which is linked in the show notes for this episode at birthmattersshow.com.
Episode Topics:
Taking birth class during pregnancy, learning about and hiring a doula
Birth story - contractions start and labor progresses quickly
Calling ambulance to get to hospital when she thinks she feels baby’s head while still at home
Arriving at hospital almost ready to push
Breastfeeding challenges
Journey into doula work and pursuing certification
Resources:
Natural Breastfeeding online course (preview/read more here, but purchase with Lisa’s discount here)
Annmorris-doula.com - Ann’s a birth & postpartum doula in Sarasota/southwest Florida
DONA International - find a doula or become a doula
Doula Interview Guide for Parents (DONA, for both birth & postpartum)
“Even When It Hurts” (Hillsong) - Ann’s favorite song for labor
The Wonder Weeks* - Anne’s recommended baby care book
Twins & More*, Elizabeth Noble - Anne’s recommended book for those having twins, triplets, or other multiples
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript:
Lisa: (00:00) You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 25.
Ann: (00:03) When they say like, you know, you're kind of on, like, a high for, like, that first hour, that was absolutely 100% what it felt like. It was absolutely euphoric. I was just so in love. I just, I remember, like, seeing him when he was first born. I just, like, started immediately, like, bawling my eyes out because it was just the most amazing thing, you know? And, like, you can feel that moving for nine months. You talk to them, you sing to them, you do all these things and then, like, they're there and it's like, "Wow, you're real! I made that!" It was a beautiful, beautiful moment.
Lisa: (00:45) Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Please know that we welcome your feedback on the show. Let us know what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd like to hear or learn in future episodes. Reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram or twitter @birthmattersnyc or you can e-mail us at podcast@birthmattersnyc.com.
Lisa: (01:32) In today’s episode, Ann shares details of her experience giving birth for the first time. Her labor progresses more quickly than most first labors, and she explains how they called an ambulance when she thought she felt the baby’s head. She’ll describe that she was, indeed, very close to pushing upon arrival at the hospital, though not quite as far along as she had thought. After she shares her birth story, she’ll also explain how her birth inspired her to move into birth and postpartum doula work as she relocated to be closer to family in southwest Florida. She also talks a bit about her Christian faith and her favorite song for labor, which is linked in the show notes for this episode at birthmattersshow.com.
Lisa: (02:14) Before we begin today's story, this episode is brought to you by the Natural Breastfeeding Online Course. Are you wondering what breastfeeding will be like? Have you heard it's really hard and really painful from friends? I would like to share with you this fantastic online course that was created by top breastfeeding experts. In the natural breastfeeding online course, here are just a few things you'll learn: that breastfeeding doesn't have to be painful, and it shouldn't be, and how the position you breastfeed in can make all the difference in the world; the 40-day blueprint to maximize milk production and help you meet your long term goals, including returning to work; how to relax while breastfeeding so you don't have to choose between getting your rest and feeding your baby; how to prepare your home environment for safety and convenience; how to identify when you need to get help and where to find it; and the most common reasons breastfeeding derails. The course is broken down into 60 brief videos, each titled as common questions new breastfeeding parents have, so you can pick and choose the questions you have or go through all of it. While the regular price of the course is $147, because I'm a professional member, I'm thrilled to offer this course to you at a steep discount. To learn more or grab the course, visit the show notes for this episode at birthmattersshow.com or visit birthmattersnyc.com/links and click the Natural Breastfeeding Online course button. Now let's get started with today's birth story.
Lisa: (03:38) Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Ann Morris with me and I'm so glad you're here. Would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself, let us know where you are in your parenting journey?
Ann: (03:48) Sure. So my name's Ann Morris. I'm a mom to Zion. He's a year and a half. So he was born March 31st, 2018. So, yeah. I'm happy to be here.
Lisa: (03:59) And do you use to live here in New York city, but you since have relocated. Would you like to share where you are right now?
Ann: (04:05) Yes, I live in Sarasota, Florida, so nice and sunny. Unfortunately we don't have fall seasons here yet, but hoping it gets here soon.
Lisa: (04:13) Some of us wouldn't mind—well maybe not the fall so much, but the missing the winter. I might want to hibernate in Florida, winter in Florida. So also you're going to be sharing not only your birth story, but later on maybe we'll talk about your journey into birth work, because Anne is a birth doula and postpartum doula as well?
Ann: (04:32) Yes.
Lisa: (04:33) Great. All right. Well why don't you just jump into sharing any and everything you'd like to share about your birth story?
Ann: (04:38) Sure. Awesome. Yeah. So I discovered I was pregnant after getting home from a two week missions trip to Zambia, Africa, which was kind of crazy. I missed a period when I was there and I got a little, you know, I was, I was thinking I could be pregnant, but I was also like, well, I've been traveling so it could be the foods I've been eating, you know, whatever. But yeah, lo and behold found out I was pregnant the day after I got home. Well, that was kind of crazy. My pregnancy was fairly easy. I felt so blessed. I didn't get sick too much. If I started to feel nauseous, I would just really breathe through it. And I was really grateful. I had a fairly easy pregnancy. I stayed pretty active all throughout my pregnancy as well. I took some prenatal yoga classes, which I think also really ended up helping me a lot in labor as well.
Ann: (05:28) And I just, I walked a lot, you know, living in New York City you have a very active lifestyle as it is. And I was also a teacher during that time that I was pregnant. So was always on my feet with the little ones and they were always super curious about, you know, the baby that was growing in my tummy, would ask me a lot of questions about that. So that was a fun time. I was also a big researcher throughout my pregnancy, so I was constantly reading articles online about pregnancy and, you know, I wanted to take a childbirth ed before I had the baby. And so I started looking into classes in my area and one of my good friends actually from my school that I was working at, she recommended Lisa Taylor's Birth Matters class. So I ended up signing up for that in, I believe it was maybe two months before my due date.
Ann: (06:16) So it was kind of cutting it close there towards the end. But I signed up for her class and that was super, super helpful. It just was not only, like, super informative, but it was also very practical. Gave us a lot of tips on how to cope with the labor pains and contractions and, what to do in the interim to rest, and breathing techniques and all that fun stuff. And also with attending her class, it encouraged me to get a doula. And so I started looking for a doula. I interviewed a couple.
Lisa: (06:46) And were you familiar with a doula before class?
Ann: (06:50) Honestly, not really. I mean, I had heard of them in some of the research I had done, but just hearing, like, exactly everything that my body was going to go through, it just really solidified that, like, I would need more support than just my husband. So yeah, that was very, very solidifying for me. And so yeah, I ended up hiring my doula Vanessa. We really clicked really well.
Lisa: (07:12) Do you mind me just asking how did you find her?
Ann: (07:15) So let me think. I had a few friends at the time who had just given birth. They had little babies and they both had doulas. And so they had connected me to a few girls. Money was pretty tight at that time. And so I truthfully, I couldn't afford the first girl that I interviewed. And then the second one that I interviewed, she was in the process of certifying. And so she was able to really work with me on, like, the sliding scale, which was very helpful. And it also just really helped that I clicked with her really well. So, just by word of mouth. Yeah. And so, yeah, I ended up working until I was 38 weeks. So I took those last couple of weeks to just, you know, finalize the apartment and you know, get everything ready.
Ann: (07:58) And then on the night before my due date, March 30th around 10:00 PM I laid down to go to bed for the night and I started to feel just, like, some, I don't know, abdominal cramps, I guess you could say. And I'd read that like, you know, Braxton Hicks contractions can come. But I mean also knowing I was so close to my due date, I knew that this could also be the real thing. And so I notify my doula that, like, I had started to feel some cramps, and she encouraged me to just rest throughout them, because, you know, with the first baby it can take a long time, right? So I tried to rest but very quickly I realized I was not going to be able to rest because they started coming pretty close together. I would say, like, three to—every three to four minutes. Like within, like, that first hour they started to really pick up, and I started timing them and I, you know, was on the phone with my doula and she would help me breathe through them and she would help me, like, find different positions. So I kept doing that and over the course of the next probably two hours I moved into the shower, and laboring in the shower was so helpful. I included in my birth story on my blog that water is nature's epidural, and I think I probably learned that from you, Lisa.
Lisa: (09:11) Yes, I always call it that because I experienced the same thing in my first birth, it was—at least in a bath. I didn't do the shower, but both of those can be so helpful, right?
Ann: (09:22) Yes. For some reason, I don't know why, I just, I didn't really want to sit. Nothing in me felt like the bath was a good idea. So standing and just having the water go on my lower back was super helpful. I don't know. I guess some of the, some of the labor pains were definitely in my back, my lower back. And so that water was super, super, super helpful. Also, like, sitting on the toilet was very helpful as well because it helped me, like, open up my hips a lot. And then also, like, swaying with my husband, like, having my arms wrapped around his neck and, like, swaying and like, using, like, vocalization. That was super helpful, too. And then at some point throughout this process, I would say it's probably around now, like, 2:30, 3 in the morning, I felt the sensation to just use the bathroom. And so as I was standing up from using the toilet, I realized, like, I could feel something down there. And so I was wiping—and I don't know if that's TMI—but it really freaked me out. And at this point the contractions were coming pretty close and I, I don't know, maybe I should've made the call sooner about going to the hospital. But you know, after everything I learned, I'd read and heard that these labors, they can take a long time. So I was like, no, I don't want to go too early.
Lisa: (10:42) And didn't you say that Deemo kept saying, "Are you sure you don't want to go? Are you sure? Like, shouldn't we go?"
Ann: (10:49) It was really hard for him to see me in pain, you know? And so he kept asking, you know, and I was like, "No, no, I think it's too soon." But I really, I missed my window to go to go to the hospital on my own. I actually ended up having Deemo, my husband, call the ambulance, because I just, I could no longer walk. And I was very worried that I could actually feel the baby's head. I later learned it was not his head at all. I believe it was just the amniotic sack. But...
Lisa: (11:18) Yeah, I did the exact same thing with my second baby's birth. When I reached down I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is the baby's head!" And then I was forgetting that—oh no, the bag hasn't released yet.
Ann: (11:30) Right. Right. Really, I mean, it spooked me. I did not want to have that baby in our apartment either. So I was like, "You know what? Let's just, let's play it safe. Please just call the ambulance." So we did. So I took an ambulance to the hospital, which was my first time in an ambulance, which was very intense. And as you can imagine, like, me, I'm, like, sitting here, my doula still is not with us in person because I'm still in my head thinking like, "No, it's okay. Like, it's too soon for you to come, and I'll get through it." And so, bless her heart, she's on the phone with me and these four men come into our apartment and I'm like, "Oh no. Like, this is going to mess me all up." Like I know, like, a change in, like, the atmosphere can, like, really mess up your labor. And she's like, "I'll help you, like, talk through it." You know, God bless her. She did so good.
Ann: (12:14) But it really, it didn't mess me up at all. Like we got to the hospital within, like, six minutes, because it was in the middle of the night. And I was 10 centimeters when I got there.
Lisa: (12:23) That's amazing. Awesome.
Ann: (12:25) I was like, "Thank God, because I can't do this much longer."
Lisa: (12:29) And so what time—I think you said it was 10 when your contractions started? 10:00 PM? And then this was around when?
Ann: (12:37) So I'd say we got to the hospital—because he was born at, like, 5:15... Oh, shoot. I'm looking back on my birth story to see if it says it. I believe he was born at, like, 5:15 or, like, 5:06, so I would say we got to the hospital by about 4 something, because I didn't push for long. Yeah. So between, like, 10 and, like, three 30 and then about 3:30 is when we called the ambulance.
Lisa: (13:01) Yeah. So you definitely had a shorter than the average first labor for sure. Because, like, 18 hours is the average for a first labor. Definitely way on the shorter side.
Ann: (13:09) That's why I kept telling myself in my head, that's why I kept saying, "It's fine, it's fine." But like, no, I guess I have a high pain tolerance. I don't know. I don't know what it was, but in my head I'm like, "I don't want unnecessary interventions. I don't want to get to the hospital early. But anyway, so yeah, we, we'd gone to Mount Sinai West, is where I delivered. So, they, they were able to take me there, which I was so happy about.
Lisa: (13:37) Was it a doctor you knew or a care provider you knew? I can't remember who you were with, but...
Ann: (13:43) I remember. She wasn't my normal doctor. And at that point I did not care one bit. I just wanted baby out.
Lisa: (13:50) Sure. Yeah. At that point in labor, definitely. You just want to meet your baby.
Ann: (13:53) Pretty much. I was whisked through the triage very quickly. They brought me up to a room and the doctor came in and she was like—I don't know if she was a midwife or an OB. I think she was an OB. She came in and she said, "Okay, are you ready to meet your baby?" And I was like, "Okay! Not really, but okay!" That was pretty cool. And so yeah, I pushed through, I think, three or four contractions. And he came out. And I used a lot of vocalization, to put it lightly, to push. And I remember my doula—she did make it to the hospital in time.
Lisa: (14:33) Okay, good. I was wondering.
Ann: (14:35) Yeah, she was able to get me some ice chips, for in between. And then she also got me a really nice, like, cool washcloth and she put it on my forehead, which was great. Like, I can remember the relief that I had, like, in between pushing when she put the washcloth on my forehead. That was so, so, so helpful. So I always do that at the births that I attend now, if they want it.
Lisa: (14:56) Yeah, because you often feel so hot at that point in labor especially. Yeah, that washcloth is one of the best doula tricks.
Ann: (15:07) Absolutely. Highly recommend. And so yeah, I mean then he came out and he cried right away, which was really awesome. And they put him on my chest so I was able to do skin-to-skin right away, which is great. And then after, like, a few minutes of that, they did take him away to do, like, the, you know, the little checks. But he was, like, breathing fine on me. So he had good APGAR scores, which was wonderful. And it was just, I mean, when they say like, you know, you're kind of on, like, a high for, like, that first hour, that was absolutely 100% what it felt like. It was absolutely euphoric. I was just so in love. I just, I remember, like, seeing him when he was first born, I just, like, started immediately, like, bawling my eyes out because it was just the most amazing thing, you know? Like, you feel them moving for nine months. You talk to them, you sing to them, you do all these things and then, like, they're there, and it's like, "Wow! You're real." Like, "I made that." Yeah, it was a beautiful, beautiful moment. So yeah, that was my birth.
Lisa: (16:15) Wow. And did Deemo get any, like, skin-to-skin after?
Ann: (16:19) He didn't do skin to skin, no. But he held him right away.
Lisa: (16:26) Nice.
Ann: (16:26) Yeah.
Lisa: (16:26) Cool. And then so do you want to share either about your birth and your journey into birth work and/or how the rest of your stay in the hospital was? I don't know if there's anything to note—or about early breastfeeding, any of that stuff.
Ann: (16:40) So yeah, my experience in the hospital was interesting. I only stayed one night because he was born so early in that morning. So I stayed that full day and then that night and then I stayed the next full day and we left the following evening. And I was in a shared room, which was really hard. Yeah, because we, I had, like, I think I was on, like, the tail end of one family leaving and so then was technically with two families at once.
Lisa: (17:15) Wow. It's such a small window of time.
Ann: (17:16) Right. Which was, yeah, it was—I mean they do their best, right, to, like, make you feel comfortable because there's, like, the wraparound, like, privacy thing but,...
Lisa: (17:27) But all of the noise and all the disruptions...
Ann: (17:30) All the noise. I couldn't really sleep super well and yeah, it was just kinda rough. I did attend their—the, like, hospital had, like, a daily, like, breastfeeding 101 crash course type thing from, like, 2 to 3 every day. So I went to that. The next day was Easter, so I spent Easter in the hospital, which was just kind of cool. April 1st.
Lisa: (17:51) April Fool's Easter.
Ann: (17:54) Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
Lisa: (17:55) I forgot that those fell on the same day recently.
Ann: (18:00) Forgot about that. But yeah. So I went to that and it was helpful. I unfortunately did not really have a super successful breastfeeding relationship with my little one. I actually exclusively pumped for a good chunk of his first year, which was great. I mean I'm so thankful to be able to do that. But yeah, I could have—I think if I would've had, like, more—I don't know. If I would have hired a postpartum doula, maybe it would have been super helpful, I think, to have just more support with breastfeeding. Because, you know, I had my mom, I had my husband to help me but, like, my mom did not breastfeed us, me and my sister. And so, like, in that regard, like, you know, I didn't have any of that kind of support. And so, yeah, that was—that was hard, too, to reconcile because, like, I think you go in, I mean, you know, hoping to be able to breastfeed at least, and then when it's, like, just not clicking, you know, that was disappointing for sure.
Lisa: (19:00) And amidst all those hormonal changes and everything, it can really just make it all the more emotional and challenging, and sometimes even trigger depression in people. And it's, I mean it's not worth that. I feel like, I feel like, you know, fed baby is best.
Ann: (19:15) Yes.
Lisa: (19:15) Let's not, like, put so much pressure on ourselves that it brings that about that that kind of level of challenging emotions and...yeah. So we need more support, don't we? Like you were just saying, we so need not only for birth but so much for postpartum.
Ann: (19:33) Yeah.
Lisa: (19:33) And it's just something that's really neglected in our society. We're just not, it's not structured in that way. In fact, I just recently interviewed another student who was talking about how she works in the hospital where she gave birth and she felt like there was such a lack of anticipatory guidance. Like, it's so important for them to say, "Okay, when you get home, here are the new challenges you're going to be facing." And they don't ever do that. At least I've never heard of anybody in our city, in any hospital or birthing environment—well, maybe midwife, home birth midwives, maybe, but not in the hospitals—to give that anticipatory guidance. Like, it's just sort of in-the-moment guidance, which is very different from when your milk comes in, and all this different new stuff is happening.
Ann: (20:17) Right.
Lisa: (20:18) So I hope that we'll over time realize that, and make strides toward better support for women.
Ann: (20:26) Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I was grateful. I mean, I was able to, you know, pump. And he only had breastmilk for the first three months of life and then he started, I think it was, like, all of a sudden a growth spurt because it was like, "Oh my gosh," like, "I just don't have enough." So I started supplementing with formula around three months. So I mean, I'm proud of myself for that.
Lisa: (20:48) Absolutely. You should be.
Ann: (20:50) Yeah. But then, yeah, so, with everything that I had gone through, you know, with my pregnancy and with delivery and then with all of the postpartum beautiful highs and the hard lows, I just was like, "Oh my gosh. Like, if it weren't for, like, the help that I did have, where would I be right now?" You know, like, that was a lot. Becoming a mother is an identity shift, you know?
Lisa: (21:15) Huge.
Ann: (21:15) I like to quote this one quote. It's like, you know, "Birth is not just the birth of a child. It's the birth of a mother."
Lisa: (21:22) Totally. Yeah.
Ann: (21:24) So really, I mean, my own personal experiences are what led me to look into first becoming a postpartum doula. I did my training in New York City in, let's see, August of 2018, so just, you know, a few months after my son was born.
Lisa: (21:41) Do you mind my asking with what organization?
Ann: (21:43) DONA International.
Lisa: (21:46) That's my organization as well.
Ann: (21:47) Oh, great. Yeah. With Ann Grauer. Shout out to Ann. And that was awesome. I learned so much from that training and it was just like, it so solidified that, like, I should be doing this work. Especially, like, you know, having a new baby at home and, like, learning it all firsthand, you know, wanting to help other women in their journeys in postpartum. And then after walking through that training and doing some of the readings and just digging into that whole world, I realized, "What am I doing, like, just doing postpartum? Like, I need to do birth, too." So after I moved down to Florida, I found another training, or another trainer that would be training here in January. So a few months later I got trained through DONA as well to be a birth worker. So I am currently working towards certification in both postpartum and birth.
Lisa: (22:43) Great. And it's so nice to be both for your clients, because it's so nice to have that option, to have that continuity of care for someone who wants both that support before and after birth. Nice.
Ann: (22:55) Yeah, absolutely. So it's been so great. It's been so rewarding. Yeah. It's like, it's such a privilege. Like I was at the last birth I attended, I just couldn't stop thinking about, like, how, as a doula, like, I see things that nobody else in their life will ever see, you know? And you know, sometimes these people are complete strangers. In this example, this was one of my very good friends. But just even be a part of that in a friend's life, like, let alone, like, a person you've met with a couple of times, you know, and then to be able to attend their birth, like, that is just the greatest gift, you know, to be able to support a family during that time. Not only the woman but her partner as well. So it's just been so rewarding. And just hearing from people afterwards and just hearing how, like, I did help. It's just so reassuring and confirming that, like, I'm walking in the path that I'm supposed to be. So it's rewarding.
Lisa: (23:56) That's wonderful. And I'll be sure to put in the show notes, for anyone who is either looking for a doula, whether that's birth or postpartum, if someone is thinking about pursuing this work, I'll be sure to put the DONA website in the show notes. That's just one of many great certifying organizations. It's the—I think it was the first doula certifying organization. It may be the largest. There are others as well. But since we're talking about DONA specifically and since that's where both of us sought out our certifications as a doula, I'll put that in the show notes.
Ann: (24:26) Awesome. Great.
Lisa: (24:27) So I was curious. A couple things. Do you have any specific things to share, points of wisdom or thoughts for expecting parents or new parents from your birth, from your pregnancy, from your parenting journey thus far?
Ann: (24:48) For birth, be flexible. Expect the unexpected.
Lisa: (24:55) Yes.
Ann: (24:56) Because every good birth plan is meant to kind of be, you know...
Lisa: (25:00) Malleable...
Ann: (25:00) Not necessarily tossed out the window, but let's just say I don't like, to call them "birth plans" anymore. I call them birth preferences.
Lisa: (25:09) Absolutely. Or priorities. Yeah.
Ann: (25:13) Yeah, because you might want one thing—in an ideal birth situation, this might be what you want, but in a moment, what you might have wanted, you know, prior to being in labor, now might be different. And, you know, once you get in the heat of the moment, say you wanted to go all natural and you just feel like you can't, like, you know, having the epidural is okay. You know, like, those plans were meant to be malleable and changed. So definitely be flexible when it comes to birth.
Lisa: (25:44) And that flexibility is a good approach toward parenting as well, because these little human beings are very unpredictable as well. So it's kind of good practice.
Ann: (25:55) Yeah, definitely. I'd say, like, for postpartum, like, reach out. Like, whoever your tribe is, don't try to do it alone. I think having good supportive community around you is so, so important. And that's, like, not just your partner. You know, like, that means, like, extended family or friends in your area, or, you know, if the means are there to hire a professional to come in, to help, you know, for maybe a few hours a day or a few hours a week, just, like, not trying to do it alone. Because yeah, having a baby, it's a lot. It's a lot on you. It's a lot on your partner. It's a lot on your relationship. It's a lot on you physically. Like, whether you have your baby vaginally or by Cesarean, like, it's still, you're still recovering, you know, in the process of learning how to take care of an infant. And so, your own body's going through a lot of changes. So, you know, definitely, like, reaching out to your tribe and not feeling like you have to do it all on your own. I think that's really, really important. Yeah.
Lisa: (26:54) Can you explain a little bit, for those who aren't familiar with what a postpartum doula does, in practical ways, what does a postpartum doula sometimes do?
Ann: (27:03) So when you bring a new baby home from the hospital for the first time, or for the second time or for the third time, it's hard to go about doing, like, the daily things that were so easy before. So, for example, like, being able to take a hot shower might not even be realistic for your first week. And if you have a postpartum doula there, we can definitely support you in the fact that we can hold your baby while you go take a shower, you know, for 10 minutes.
Ann: (27:28) And I just talked to somebody today who's pregnant with her second and she was talking about how therapeutic the shower is when you're a new mom. And I've heard that so many times from new moms. So that is golden.
Ann: (27:41) I remember my first shower after being home, and I told my mom that was like a day at the spa, because that was amazing. Something so simple. Right? But as a postpartum doula I basically, like, fill in the gaps. So I want to support the family in however they need support. If they're used to having, you know, their lunch and their dinner, like, at a certain time, like, I can help meal prep for them for the next couple of days, or I can just help prepare the meal then, and you know, serve it to her while she's breastfeeding. I can offer breastfeeding support tips, you know, different—trying different positions, watching for the latch, making sure baby's latching well. You know, we can help with laundry, I mean, laundry piles up with having a new baby, yours or theirs. So I can help with that. You know, maybe helping with sibling adjustment, if there's an older sibling in the home and, you know, they may be having a hard time with adjusting to having a new baby brother or sister. I can help offer, you know, tips on that. If mom is worried about taking the baby out to run errands by herself, I can go run an errand with them. So it's all very, like, practical ways of helping, basically, when you have a new baby around.
Lisa: (28:56) And there in Florida, or for just you personally within your business, do you—how does the pricing structure—do you just charge by the hour, or do you charge a flat fee for the first front-end minimum amount of time, or how does that work?
Ann: (29:10) Well, for now I'm charging per hour. I have also met doulas down here that offer packages, so I'm still trying to figure out what works for me. For now I am doing it by the hour for postpartum work. Yeah.
Lisa: (29:22) Yeah. I always just want to point out, usually there's at least at some point the ability to just kind of decide how much or how little you need that support. Whereas, like, with a birth doula, it's, like, a flat rate usually with, you know, for the whole package of services. As you're doing all of your required reading for the postpartum doula certification, do you have any favorite books?
Ann: (29:42) Well it's interesting you asked that, because I'm actually reading a book right now about twins—like, having twins, or just multiples in general. And that's been super interesting because me, I had a singleton. And so I didn't, you know, I didn't need to learn anything about having twins or more than that. So that has been really incredible to read about.
Lisa: (30:01) Do you happen to remember the title?
Ann: (30:03) I think it's called "Having Twins and More."
Lisa: (30:06) Because I—it's funny, I just gave a bunch of twins books to a client who started class with me yesterday, and I'm just curious if it was in that pile. A doula collective had passed on their books that they were just getting rid of. But I'll try to—maybe we can email afterwards and I'll put that in the show notes. Okay, and have you read the book "The Fourth Trimester"?
Ann: (30:28) No, I haven't.
Lisa: (30:29) Oh my goodness. I'm sure they'll be adding it to the required reading for DONA certification. It's my new favorite book on postpartum. So, so good. It's so thorough. It really covers everything that popped into my head, like, thinking, "Oh, I wonder if she'll cover this. I wonder if she'll cover this," and she did, and more. It was just really, really—to me, really the best book that I've read on postpartum.
Ann: (30:54) That's awesome. Another book that I actually really enjoyed reading, and you can let me know if you've heard of this one, too—it's called "The Wonder Weeks."
Lisa: (31:00) I have it on my shelf and I need to read it. I have not read it, but a client recommended it. Yeah, several people have recommended it, actually.
Ann: (31:08) Yeah, it's very interesting, and it also helps give like, it helps give me even peace with having, like, a six month old, seven month old with reading it. It kind of explains those developmental leaps that every child just naturally goes through. So it explains, like, maybe, like, if there's a difference in their behavior one day, it could explain kind of why. And explains, like, what they're going through and what they're kind of learning during this time. So, and it does it based on, like, not their—I believe that they do it based on the birth date or due date. I can't remember which one it was, but it's very, very interesting.
Lisa: (31:47) So it goes chronologically, you're saying?
Ann: (31:49) Yes.
Lisa: (31:50) Yeah, I really appreciated that as a parent. There was a similar but older book when I gave birth, you know, 14 years ago for the first time, that I loved, because I—yeah, it broke it down into, like, week-by-week. Just really, really helpful to have that step by step education. But easily digestible, too, because it's, like, small and you know, spaced out by weeks. Yeah. Thanks for that recommendation.
Ann: (32:14) Yeah.
Lisa: (32:17) Let's talk gratitude. I'm just curious, is there anything today or in your parenting journey that you are particularly grateful for? And it could be one thing. It can be more than one thing. Just curious.
Ann: (32:30) Good question. I'm definitely grateful for, like, the community that I have found in Sarasota. I am a part of a church down here. And in attending that church I found, like, a really wonderful mom's group. And so we have— we meet every other week. And it's great. They have childcare available, which is wonderful because I don't have to worry about, you know, coordinating that ahead of time. And yeah, it's just been great. Like, you know, just, you know, women who are—some of them are in similar seasons as I am, but, you know, some of them have grown children, some of them have toddlers, you know, everything in between. But that's been really wonderful because I'm able to connect with, you know, like-minded people, and you know, moms, you can, you know, just be there to support and encourage and uplift one another. So that's something I'm definitely thankful for. It took me a while to find down here, but when I did, it was worth the wait.
Lisa: (33:26) Oh, that community is so important. Expectant parents, find your family, find your community. Especially helpful to find friendships with people who are having babies around the same time, you know, in the ballpark, within a few months or so. Just because that's golden, to be able to share the joys and share the heartaches and the challenges as well, and just have that support.
Ann: (33:56) I can rattle off more than I'm grateful for, if you want. I mean I definitely feel...
Lisa: (33:59) I'm all for, like, gratitude. It's awesome. It's important.
Ann: (34:05) I'm also really grateful for my health and for my little boy's health as well. He's a very, very active toddler. He's a year-and-a-half now, and he's just running all the time and learning new things and climbing. And even in the midst of the chaos and, like, the—you know, nothing's ever clean anymore, or like, you know, there's stuff everywhere all the time.
Lisa: (34:33) Yeah. You just kind of have to make peace with that, right?
Ann: (34:36) Well, something I have to do on a daily basis, really, is just making peace with the fact that, like, life truly will never be the same again. And, like, that's okay. Because, like, he adds so much more than, you know, just mess. Like, he adds so much laughter and so much joy and so I'm very grateful for that, you know, for our health and just for, yeah, yeah, for having a healthy, healthy little boy. He's so fun.
Lisa: (35:03) Nice. All right. Well, is there anything else you wanted to share before I ask the music question that we talked about before we hit record?
Ann: (35:15) Hm. Well, I mean, I don't think so. Yeah. I was just, I'm super grateful I took the childbirth ed class. I'll just plug you in again, Lisa, because like, honestly your class was so helpful. And I'm so grateful, and I encourage all of my clients to take childbirth ed classes now because of my experience that I had with you. So.
Lisa: (35:35) That means so much. Thank you, Ann. Very kind of you. All right. Well, last question I want to ask you. I noticed that on your blog, which I will link to in the show notes, that you listed some worship songs that were great that you loved for your labor. Is there one that you in particular really appreciated?
Ann: (35:58) Yeah, so, in my blog I list, like, maybe, like, 10 or 12 songs and, like, the first one is called "Even When It Hurts" by Hillsong, Hillsong Worship and like, just even in, like, the title of the song, "Even When It Hurts," like, I mean, yeah, labor—hello.
Lisa: (36:12) Right.
Ann: (36:12) I put that one on and I just really resonated with it and, like, you know, I was expecting to maybe, like, go through the whole playlist, like, during, you know, my time, when my time came. But I really don't think I did. I think I just got really so used to, like, singing that song. You know, it says "Even when it hurts, I will praise you." So I just, I kept playing that over and over, and kept reminding myself that, like, you know, even in life when things are going really hard, or things are not going our way, like, we can still have things to be grateful for and to—you know, I'm a Christian. I believe in God's goodness even when things aren't going well. So, yeah, that song was very, very helpful.
Lisa: (37:00) Mm, that's beautiful. Thank you. More gratitude. Lovely. I'm feeling a theme here.
Ann: (37:06) Yeah.
Lisa: (37:09) Great. Awesome. Well, thank you so much and for sharing all of this great stuff. Your birth story, which—I don't think I knew about the ambulance until you sent me your blog. I was like, "What? That's wild." It's a very exciting story.
Ann: (37:26) A little too exciting. If I have a second, I don't want it to be that exciting.
Lisa: (37:31) That makes sense.
(37:34) Right when I start to feel a contraction, I'm just going to go.
Lisa: (37:35) Yeah, that's probably wise next time, with the knowledge that it likely will go faster than last time. I hope you'll stay in touch and keep me posted on how your doula profession is going. I want to support that any way I can, even from afar. And I'm always thrilled when students do enter the birth profession. It's really just so exciting to me since it's such a passion for me. It's exciting to see when students catch that passion as well, so I wish you all the best with that and let's stay in touch.
Ann: (38:07) Thank you.
Lisa: (38:08) Okay, well thanks so much. Hope to talk to you soon.
Ann: (38:11) Okay, sounds good. Bye, Lisa.
Lisa: (38:12) Bye.
Lisa: (38:14) That wraps up my nice chat with Ann Morris. If you decide to hire a doula (which, if you know me, you know I highly recommend it!), it’s smart to interview more than one to ensure you’re hiring the best fit for your and your partner’s personality and needs. Ask yourself: “will I feel comfortable with this person when I’m at my most vulnerable, and potentially even physically naked?” In the show notes, I’ll link you to some good questions you could ask a potential doula that could help you make an informed decision. A recurring theme in the birth stories we’ve shared on this podcast has been how little expectant parents realize how much support is really needed in the first few months after having a baby. So, at the risk of becoming a broken record, I highly recommend going through the postpartum plan that’s linked in this episode’s show notes and plan for support in the postpartum period to protect your wellness and get off to the best start possible. Part of this plan, depending on how much organic support you have around you, might include hiring a postpartum doula. In many cases, you can choose how much or how little you need this help. Some postpartum doulas will work on an hourly basis. Others will charge a front-end minimum for something like 8 or 10 hours, and then above and beyond that you can pay them by the hour. Some of them do some light cooking or light cleaning, some of them do overnights. So, if you’re considering hiring one, make a list of the things you might need and then ask about these things when you interview potential postpartum doulas.
Lisa: (41:02) One thing I want to point out is the difference between a baby nurse (or baby nanny) and a postpartum doula. Postpartum doulas more often have expertise in breastfeeding. Many people who hire a baby nurse find that the breastfeeding relationship ends up being undermined, unintentionally, so if breastfeeding is a goal for you, I would much more highly recommend hiring a postpartum doula than a baby nurse--unless the baby nurse is also a lactation consultant or otherwise has a good deal of breastfeeding expertise and can effectively support those goals. Many postpartum doulas have a breastfeeding counselor certification of some kind and know, for example, that in the first 6 or so weeks after birth, it’s important for the breasts to be stimulated at least every 2-3 hours around the clock in order to establish the healthy milk supply that the baby needs. Many baby nurses would encourage a new mother to get a long stretch of sleep, which sounds awesome but instead often backfires because the breasts aren't being stimulated enough to establish a healthy supply. So, this is a big reason that, since most expectant parents aim to breastfeed or chestfeed, I usually recommend seeking out specifically postpartum doula support. Okay, here’s a sneak peek of what’s up next week!
Speaker 3: (41:04) But as a yoga teacher, I know how to drop into what it feels like when I'm in Shavasana, that same feeling. The night before Sierra came out, my husband and I—my husband is trained in meditation and we meditated the night before she came out, because neither of us could sleep. So we just, I said, "Just, you know, like, lead a sit, like, just lead me through a meditation." And he did, and it was—the nurse walked in and we're both, like, barely touching palms, and they know what we're doing was meditating and it helped us through just the emotional roller coaster of giving birth.
Lisa: (41:38) A parting thought I'll leave with you today. Like Anne described, your body produces natural hormones that help you feel euphoric after birth and that magnify all the feels. Isn't that just the coolest? Thanks for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, and be well.---END---
