Today you’ll hear the story of fertility warrior Jasmine Katatikarn, who struggled to have a child for six years. After multiple IUIs and her 2nd IVF, she was told that she had a less than 1% chance of having a baby and to stop trying. However, Jasmine didn’t give up.
Using her background as an artist, she applied an artist’s mindset to overcome her roadblocks and design a life that gave control of her fertility journey and life moving forward. Using her designer point of view and tools, Jasmine shows you how to take control of your own fertility journey as well.
As a result, she became pregnant within months of being told she had less than a 1% chance. Jasmine now has two kids, both through IVF. Today, you’ll hear details about her fertility journey, what led her into encouraging others along similar paths, and she’ll share a bit about the work she does to support parents who are on the TTC journey.
Episode Topics:
Trying to conceive for 1 year
Seeking out fertility specialist
Getting “unexplained infertility” diagnosis
Trying IUI unsuccessfully
Switching clinics, doing IUI again without success
Trying IVF, egg retrieval doesn’t work
Getting new diagnosis of poor egg quality
Going for acupuncture and doing detox to try to improve things
Egg retrieval doesn’t work for the 2nd time
Doctor tells her she has less than 1% chance of conceiving and recommends egg donor or adoption
Jasmine has an epiphany that she should apply some of her professional skills of the artist’s mindset and problem-solving skills to this journey
Goes back to acupuncturist, comes up with a strategy to change clinics
New doc recommends trying IVF on day 3 instead of day 5, doesn’t agree with last doctor on the 1% chance
Gets pregnant with the day 3 approach!
Surprised by how easy pregnancy is compared to the fertility demands
Hires a doula, has days-long prodromal labor
Realizes after having her first baby that she should share her struggles/journey with her social media following, “comes out” on FB Live and finds a very supportive community
She and her husband decide to try IVF again for a second at age 37 and she decides to share the journey on social -- finding that community support radically different and better than the first time (plus her mindset shift also was key)
Getting pregnant with her son
Describing her online program for TTC folks
Resources:
FREE Fertility Training from Jasmine
Sponsor links:
Interview Transcript
58 - Jasmine Katatikarn fertility arts - birth story audio 2020-07-27
Lisa: Welcome Jasmine.
[00:00:01] Jasmine: Thank you, Lisa. I'm happy to be here.
[00:00:04] Lisa: So excited to have you. You're the very first guest I've had, who is not going to be well, you might share a little bit of a birth story, but more so you're going to be sharing your fertility journey story.
[00:00:13] And I've really been wanting to share some fertility journey stories because I've had so many students come to birth class sharing in their intake form that they have conceived in alternative methods and have really struggled with trying to conceive, coming with so much already gone through so much. It's so, so common. And I feel like it's such an isolating experience for so many people, for too many people. So I'm really excited about the work you're doing, really excited for you to share with listeners today a little bit about your journey, as well as the ways that you can help people feel less isolated and more empowered as they're trying to conceive their sweet little babies. So. Why don't we just start off with, sharing a bit about your fertility journey?
[00:01:00] Jasmine: Yeah. I'd love to. And I couldn't agree more with everything you just said about it's just really isolating. And then to the point when they are there with you and they're pregnant, they've already been through such a journey.
[00:01:12] And that's why I am so passionate about the fertility journey of getting to that point. And with that in mind, I'd love to share my own journey with you so you can get a better idea of where I'm coming from, why I'm here today and why I'm doing what I'm doing, essentially.
[00:01:30]Growing up, I had a pretty goo., I can't complain, a pretty good childhood.
[00:01:35] I was kind of fed into that social norms of what I should be doing. Kind of like get good grades, go to a good school, then get a good career, get married, have those 2.5 kids, right. Work, really hard and retire. And I was totally following that, to be honest with you, without really stopping to think.
[00:01:59] And things were going as planned, as I planned. And I still remember, I got married at 28 and in my plan, my perfect plan, I was like, okay, I'll start trying at 30, I'll have three kids by 35 easy and then I'll move on, you know, working hard and finally retiring. And I still think back about how naive I was.
[00:02:24] 30 hit, I started trying and I remember like the first month joking with my husband, like, "Oh, I'm not pregnant yet. You know, I thought, you know, I thought it'd be pregnant by now." And then eventually one month led to three months, then six and nine. And then, you know, I started getting worried. It was like, "What's going on?" And you never know until you start trying, that's the thing too, right?
[00:02:48] So a little under 12 months we went to see my doctor and she said something's probably up, you should go to a specialist. So we went ahead and went to a specialist after about a year of trying. And we did all the tests, the fertility tests, both me and my husband and everything came out normal, everything, you know, they're like, "Oh, you seem healthy, nothing's blocked," you know, "but obviously, maybe something is not going right because you have been trying for a year." And at that point they diagnosed me with unexplained infertility, which anyone that's been diagnosed with unexplained infertility probably can relate that it's a very frustrating diagnosis, right. Because,
[00:03:32] Lisa: It seems like such a lack of information.
[00:03:34] Jasmine: Exactly. And you want to, when you're faced with a problem or a challenge you want to be like, "Okay, what is that? So I can focus on solving it," but when you're basically [told], "Oh, everything seems fine, but no, no, no, there's something wrong. So we're just going to call it unexplained."
[00:03:49] It's like shooting in the dark, trying to figure out what it could be. So we started doing IUIs at that point, which is the medical term -- people have asked me to explain what IUI is are, and anything I say is not medical because I am an artist and not a, you know, medical by profession, although my dad is a doctor. I always joke that the IUIs is like the medical version of the turkey baster which like, we all kind of see
[00:04:15] Lisa: That's much more relatable than like medical speak, right?
[00:04:18] Jasmine: Exactly. I mean, it's obviously not a turkey baster, but it's the same concept, right. They monitor you and when you're ovulating they'll take your partner's sperm or whoever's sperm you're using, kind of clean it out and put it in you when it's the optimal time. And will include meds or not meds depending on what kind of cycle you're doing. So we did that for probably three to four cycles of that and with no success.
[00:04:48]It's funny time goes by really slowly, but really quickly. I feel like when you're trying to have a child or you're waiting for some, cause you're so anxious to have it happen, but at the same time, it's like not happening fast enough. But so, during this time, two years flew by, as we were trying different things and nothing was working.
[00:05:09] And finally the doctor was like, maybe, and we were still unexplained and fertility, no one could really figure it out. And the doctor said maybe we should try IVF. And at that point, you know, IVF was a little daunting to me. And for those that aren't familiar IVF is where they give you a lot more meds and they will actually retrieve your eggs from you.
[00:05:33] So it's a surgical procedure and depending on what you're doing they'll kind of put the eggs and the sperm together separately in a laboratory. And then they'll transfer those embryos back into you in hopes that they will stick and you'll get pregnant. So it's a lot more intense, medical wise you have a lot of meds going through you. So that's why I was hesitant to do it at first. But at this point, it's three years in and I'm 33 and I was supposed to have three kids by 35.
[00:06:07] So we decided to go ahead and do it. And I was really excited because I thought, okay, many people going into this, IVF's going to work. It's worked for so many people. This is going to be it. And before we started with an IVF treatment, we actually switched clinics at this point because this is when I first started learning that not all clinics are the same. Just like not all doctors are the same, especially with IVF. The labs really matter, too.
[00:06:34] It's kind of a partnership with the doctor and you know, what capabilities they had. So we switched to a bigger clinic and we actually had to do more IUI when we switched because of honestly insurance reasons. So we did more IUI was still didn't weren't successful. We switched to IVF. And this
[00:06:54] Lisa: Did it feel like going backwards to have to do IUIs again? How did that feel emotionally for you?
[00:06:59] Jasmine: It did, but at the same time it felt like going backwards, but at the same time, I was still a little hesitant about IVF, just because of all the meds that were involved. And I was like, wow, this would be great if it would work through IUI.
[00:07:15] Lisa: Yeah. You never know.
[00:07:16] Jasmine: Yeah. You never know. So, but you're right. I definitely was probably like, just, just get me in there, like I'm ready to get pregnant.
[00:07:24] Lisa: Time's a tickin'.
[00:07:25] Jasmine: Exactly. And when it came to IVF, that's when, you know, a couple of things came out where I 1) realized I wasn't a really big responder to the meds.
[00:07:38] Like you hear stories where people have like 30 plus eggs retrieved. But for me, the most I would ever respond would be like 10 or 12, which, which is fine, you know, they say it only takes one. But things like that came out. And so the first cycle things went relatively well. I had the retrieval, I probably had around 10 eggs retrieved then probably like five fertilized and four were like good by day two, day three. And they scheduled me for a day five transfer.
[00:08:14] And I still remember that morning of day five. I was so excited. I was, you know, I was ready. I was like, this is my day. I'm going to get the transfer. This is like the closest I felt like I had gotten to getting pregnant. And as I was going out the door, my phone rang and I picked it up and it was a nurse from the clinic and she said, don't bother coming in.
[00:08:37] And I remember being so confused. I was like, "What, what do you mean? Today's my transfer? Today's you know, the day." And then she said, "We just checked and none of them made it. None of them made it to day five. So there's no transfer today." And honestly, I didn't even realize that would happen, like, cause my first IVF, I thought I had gone through everything.
[00:09:01] I had gone through all the meds, all of the appointments I got through the retrieval, the surgical part. And all of a sudden I felt like I didn't even get my chance to get the transfer. Like I did all that work, but I like missed the most important part and I was upset, you know, you do all that, it's emotionally draining. And that's part of the journey, right? It's just an emotional roller coaster where you're constantly building yourself up with hope and then being devastated. I let myself be upset, you know, but at the same time, within a couple of hours, I'm like, okay, I got to pump myself back up again because you know, you always have to be hopeful.
[00:09:45] So the next day we went in to see the doctor, and this is where she said, "Well, I have a new diagnosis for you. I don't think it's unexplained infertility anymore. It is poor egg quality." And I was like, okay. Finally, there's something that I could tackle and I can focus on improving.
[00:10:04] So my first question was, "Okay, so how do I improve my own quality?" And her answer was, "Well, you can't." And I was like, "What do you mean you can't improve egg quality?" And she's like, "No, you can't improve your egg quality." And I remember kept pushing her. And I was like, "How is that possible?"
[00:10:24] And at this point, you know, I was nearly 35 and I was like, I still feel healthy, you know fit, I'm relatively young-ish, not in the fertility stages, but I felt young. And finally she was like, "Well, they say acupuncture sometimes can help with egg quality." So I was like, okay. I'll do it.
[00:10:46] Lisa: I was just about to ask, like, is that actually true? Is that fully true? That there's nothing you can do?
[00:10:52] Jasmine: Yeah. I mean, everyone has a different opinion. So, you know, honestly, if she would've said like, go hop on one leg over there for five minutes, that will improve your egg quality, I would have done it. I was like, you know, at this point I've been trying for nearly five years.
[00:11:08] It's like, I am trying everything that -- 'cause you never know. And so I went to a fertility acupuncturist that specialize in fertility and she was great. And we spoke about kind of detoxing and maybe taking a break for three months. So I kind of get the meds that are in my body out.
[00:11:29] And adjusting my diet and just like focusing on me and my wellbeing, which I felt like it was a breath of fresh air because there's so much stress and anxiety. And you kind of, although you're like focusing on your physical, you're not, right? This time actually allowed me to stop and give myself permission to be like, okay, I'm just going to take care of myself.
[00:11:52] I'm going to take three months off from cycles and meds and just, you know, focus on that. And I did and still to this day, I will say my diet's different because of, you know, that detox and stuff like that. And we went in for our second cycle of IVF and it was pretty much very similar to the first one.
[00:12:12] Nothing really changed. And we got a similar amount of eggs. Probably every time we would do an IVF, it'd be a little bit less -- maybe one or two less. It was almost like Groundhog's Day; it was a little bit too similar, you know, day two, we had three that looked good. We scheduled for the fifth day for the appointment for the transfer.
[00:12:33] And obviously I was really nervous because this is exactly what happened the first time. And in this case, I was actually at the acupuncturist's office that morning doing an appointment before the transfer to kind of prepare myself. And I still remember when she came back in, after my appointment was done and she had this look on her face and I was like, ah, I know what you're going to say.
[00:12:57] And she said, they called and it's not going to happen today. So the same exact thing happened. The eggs didn't make it to day five. And I remember, each step you feel like it's the lowest, but then it just feels like you can get lower and lower. And walking back through the park with my husband after that, that morning, you know, I remember crying, I felt like I worked even harder this time, you know?
[00:13:28] And still the same thing. I like give the analogy of sports. Cause I used to play sports where it's like, you practice so hard doing, you know, you do all the work, but you're just like stuck on the sidelines. You don't even get your chance to go into the game and play. And so I never even got my chance to have the transfer.
[00:13:45]And during that walk, I still remember thinking you know, at this point it was egg quality. And I just also, you know, what comes with fertility is not only all this physical drain, but mental and emotional. And for me, there's a lot of guilt too, because I felt like I was the barrier for my husband to be a father, because I was like physically the barrier.
[00:14:14] They were my eggs, you know, and it's also because you know, when I first met my husband, it was way back in college. But you know, when you meet someone and you instantly know they're meant to do something. And for me, I remember still when I met him, I was like, "Oh, he'd be a great father," which is so odd to think of when you meet someone in college.
[00:14:35] But he just so much more paternal than even I am. And I just was like, I cannot be the person stopping you from being a father. And during that walk, I actually, I gave him permission to leave. I was just like, if this doesn't work out, I really want you to go. And I said to him, like, "I know I'll be fine. I'll figure it out, but I can't like know that you can't be a father because of me." I still get teary-eyed talking about it.
[00:15:03] Lisa: It's heartbreaking to think of you having to go through that emotional process.
[00:15:09] Jasmine: Yeah. So I mean, of course he said, "No, we're in this together. We're gonna figure this out."
[00:15:17]He's amazing. And the next day again, I hit rock bottom that day, but the next day, I pump myself back up. We went back to the doctor's office that morning and I was fully ready for the next plan. Like, okay, what are we trying now? It didn't work." And we walked in and I remember, you know, she had a plan for us, but it wasn't what I had expected. She started instantly talking about egg donors and adoption. And I, I remember I just paused and I said, "Wait, can I not try another cycle with my own eggs?" And she said, "No," she's like, "No, I wouldn't recommend it. We're not going to do that. I would only consider doing egg donors for you because of your egg quality."
[00:16:04] And I remember I kept pushing her. I was like, "How is there really no chance?" And she came back and she said, "I give you a less than 1% chance of having your own biological children with your own eggs." And that percentage is like, it's killer right? Less than 1%. And I feel like in fertility, you're dealing with percentages so often, right?
[00:16:30] You're thinking like, okay, IVF has like a 20 something percent success rate, which feels low until you hear less than 1%. And here I am at this point I was 35. And instead of in my perfect plan, by 35, I would have three kids. Instead, I was sitting here in the doctor's office at 35. I've been trying for five years, never been able to get pregnant and being told I had less than a 1% chance of having a child. So this, this by far was the lowest point in my journey.
[00:17:08] Lisa: I can see why.
[00:17:09] Jasmine: Yeah, it was really hard. And I left that appointment feeling devastated. And I still remember that morning.
[00:17:22]Me and my husband, I think we were both just numb. And we kissed each other goodbye and we both went off to work. Because, you know, that's what you do. And I still remember on the train ride to work I was just, you know, I cried. And by the time I got to work I like put myself back together because fertility is also very isolating. Right. And you also keep this facade. No one knew I was trying, like, I kept this from everyone, so I can't go into work telling anyone, you know, "I was just told I have less than a 1% chance of having a child."
[00:17:56] Lisa: That's where it's really isolating, right? Yeah. Because you feel like you can't talk to anybody.
[00:18:02] Jasmine: Exactly. And so I went into work and I started, you know, distracting myself, to be honest with you. I was like, "Okay, I'm just going to focus on work. We'll talk tonight. Figure out, you know, what to do." Like do I look into egg donors? I start looking into adoption?
[00:18:19] And that's when a problem -- so for work, I should say that I'm a lighting artist on feature animated films. Which is a very creative field. But it's also very technical. It's also, it requires a lot of problem solving. So I had a challenge in front of me for work that I had to solve, and I started kind of approaching it as I do with an artist mindset, what I do every day.
[00:18:45] And as I was approaching my problem, there was like a big a-ha that happened. The way I approach problems as an artist at work was very different than how I had been approaching my fertility journey. As an artist, I always have this mentality that there's like multiple solutions to everything.
[00:19:05] You just have to keep on trying, iterating, and also kind of reframing what your challenge is, because sometimes you're focusing on the wrong thing. And then I realized sitting there, I was like, wait for my fertility journey, I didn't do any of this. I was just kind of blindly, almost too trusting of, you know the medical professionals I was talking to, I never got second opinions really. I just kind of went to one, they said this. I'll be, "Okay, let's do that." And just went down this path without really being my own advocate. Just kind of letting other people tell me what I should be doing and then blindly following them. And this time, I was like, why am I doing that?
[00:19:47] Why don't I use the same mindset I use at work to problem solve and to find multiple creative solutions to one problem. And it always works at work. You know, I'm always able to conquer obstacles that are in my way. And there are ways that ultimately ends up always working.
[00:20:05] And this is where I was like, "Okay, this is where it stops." I have nothing to lose at this point. I was just told I had less than 1%, let's approach this in a different way. And that's when I started looking at my fertility journey from the mindset of an artist. And what happened was the next day part of that mindset is kind of brainstorming, reframing your situation and getting multiple opinions to gain different perspectives. Because especially when you're so in something it's really hard to take a step back and really look at your situation when it's so personal.
[00:20:41]So the next day I went to my acupuncturist to talk to her about it, about what the doctor said. You know, she had her opinions, which were great. And I love to just get a variety of opinions because doctors, I have full respect for doctors. As I said, my father's a doctor, but they're just human, right. They're just like any one of us. So that's why it's so important to just get multiple opinions.
[00:21:07] And I have like, you know, I have no bad feelings to that doctor that told me less than 1%, but at the same time, I'll get to the end of my story, but before I finish that sentence...
[00:21:19] So, I went to the acupuncturist and we brainstorm together, essentially. She was like, if you're willing to try different things, I know you're exhausted at this point.
[00:21:29] I think, you know, maybe that clinic wasn't right for you. Maybe you should try this other clinic. And she actually recommended a doctor that she thought would be a really good fit for me. And I was like, "Okay, let's try it. I'm open to seeing other people getting other opinions at this point."
[00:21:45] Cause I totally changed kind of my mindset on how I was doing it. And so I went to see this other doctor. And one, he said to me in the first meeting was like, he didn't agree with the less than 1% chance. Obviously there's something going on, but he is willing to test it out and iterate different things.
[00:22:04] And the biggest thing that he wanted to test was, "your eggs, your embryo seem good by day three, but they never made it to day five. So what if we try day three transfer instead of a day, five transfer?"
[00:22:18] And I was like, "That sounds wonderful. Let's do it." And that's part of the artist's mind[set], like just testing and iterating.
[00:22:25] And if one thing doesn't work, maybe tweak something with it and that's what --
[00:22:28] Lisa: Yeah, get a little creative.
[00:22:32] Jasmine: And so we did that. So we did the day three transfer. I had my third IVF cycle. It was my third? Yes, was my third. At this point I lose count. And I got the transfer, first of all, which was like, so exciting and then I got pregnant.
[00:22:54] From that third IVF with the day three transfer. And the crazy thing was, this was just a couple of months after that meeting. I was sitting in that doctor's office and she told me I should stop trying. And I have less than a 1% chance. And I always think like, it would have been so easy for me to stop trying at that point. I had been trying for five years, I was exhausted and like, I had done already so many procedures.
[00:23:22] And when a doctor tells you stop trying, you have less than a 1% chance. It would have been so easy for me to do that. And I might've done that, honestly, if I hadn't had that kind of like a-ha moment at work that day to, you know, approach this in a different way, in a different mindset.
[00:23:41] Lisa: Interesting. Getting that devastating news while it was so challenging, it sounds like it was what was needed to get you into a new mindset. Yeah?
[00:23:52] Jasmine: Yeah, I agree.
[00:23:53] Lisa: And then another thing you were talking about that really resonated for me is that disconnect. Often in different aspects of life, such as health journey aspects, there's this disconnect when, like I I'm a big believer in the work that we do as a profession can play an important role into the decisions we make in our fertility journey -- I normally am talking about the pregnancy journey and birth journey. So I love that you noticed that disconnect and got to a point where you started to assimilate those disciplines in your life and realize," Oh, wait, there's some carry over here. Some really, really important, valuable carry over here."
[00:24:39] Yeah. And one other thing I just wanted to come in on last thing was the whole idea of seeking multiple opinions based on the wisdom you have from your profession. So, so valuable. I love hearing about how valuable that is in this aspect -- this side of pregnancy, of preconception. Because I, I believe that that's part of like, once you have conceived and you are expecting a baby, and you're thinking about how you want to labor and give birth, you know, assembling a birth team where you do have multiple voices and multiple perspectives. Invaluable. Really invaluable. So thank you.
[00:25:15] There's such great wise nuggets there that you shared. So please proceed.
[00:25:21] Jasmine: I mean, I couldn't agree more with everything you said, and it's true. We often separate personal and professional, right. And we, we see it right. At work, you might be a completely different person than you are at home, and you use different methods, but you realize that you can bridge it and you can use your strengths that you use at work at home and vice versa.
[00:25:42] So I agree. I love that. And that's how you kind of align yourself. So you're not just, you're happy in both work and life, I think too, which is really important in the long run. So yeah, and so I did get pregnant and I still remember when the doctor called me to tell me, and he said, "You're pregnant."
[00:26:03] And it's surreal right after you were trying for so long.
[00:26:07] Lisa: And with what you had been told, too.
[00:26:08] Jasmine: Exactly. And I remember saying to him, "Are you serious?" And I was at work on the phone. And his response was hilar[ious]. He said, "Well, if I was joking, I'd be a horrible doctor right now." And I was like, "Yeah, that's probably true."
[00:26:22]And you know, the pregnancy went well. I was I'm like, I was like that probably the happiest pregnant woman. I love being pregnant. I feel like after fertility struggles and all those appointments and stuff, pregnancy, it was like a breeze to me. I still remember as I was going to like seeing what pregnancy appointments I needed to go to.
[00:26:45]And, you know, I had been used to going to the clinics for like five, six days a week, you know, every day.
[00:26:51] Once you get closer to your retrievals and stuff, it is like six days a week where you're getting blood work and everything.
[00:26:58] So I remember when I was in my OB/GYN's office and they were saying, "Okay, so you come this day and then you have you come in another two weeks." And the worst thing is like the sugar test. And I remember turning to my husband and I was like, "Oh my God, is this what everyone else just has to go through? They're so lucky."
[00:27:17] Lisa: And they complain about it.
[00:27:19] Jasmine: Exactly. I was just like, "Oh my God, this is so easy." And I loved being pregnant. I got a doula, and that kind of goes in flow with having like multiple people to support. Also, I had planned to do natural. It didn't quite work out, but I appreciated the plan.
[00:27:38] I was in labor for like four days. And still with no sign of it happening, they said it would take another five days if I wanted to go natural.
[00:27:46] Lisa: So tough. Prodromal labor, we call that and that is not fun. That's exhausting.
[00:27:53] Jasmine: Yeah. But as a result, I have a healthy four-year-old daughter right now.
[00:28:00] And she's amazing. I'm grateful for her every day. And I also, well, I don't want to give a spoiler alert, but I'll just continue the story. After I had my child -- at this point, I was still quiet about everything. My fertility journey, no one knew we had been trying for, by the time she was born, six years.
[00:28:19]And all people saw were us traveling like crazy for six years, because during all this time, we were trying to conceive one of the ways that we stayed sane was to travel because I love to travel and I needed kind of that [?] -- I needed something, you know. I still remember after one failed cycle, I turned to my husband, I was like, where are we going? I don't care how much it costs. I just, I need to distract myself. I need something to look forward to.
[00:28:44] Lisa: I love that. We love traveling as well. So yeah, that's very therapeutic. I love it.
[00:28:50] Jasmine: Yeah. So we've traveled the world. Like I, so many places during those six years. And I realized what happened was all people saw, you know, on social media was us traveling for like six years.
[00:29:03] Lisa: The jetsetters.
[00:29:05] Jasmine: Exactly. And then all of a sudden I posted a picture, Oh, we have a baby. You know? And I still remember one of my friends posted a comment after I posted a picture of my daughter Teegan and she said, Oh my God, I wish I had your life.
[00:29:20] You have the perfect life. And I remember just, I stopped, I read that comment and I was like, oh my God, I'm feeding into -- I just remember, I went back to how I felt when I was trying for all those years. And you know, every baby announcement, every pregnancy picture, it triggers you. And, you know, I had so much joy for these people.
[00:29:43] When you're having it, but it's so hard when you're going through it. And all the time I had this, another guilt. I was like, I am feeding into this social media perfection and no one realizes I suffered for, we both, me and my husband, like for five to six years, we were trying and no one had any clue. So that's when I decided I needed to tell people I need to come out with my story and that's exactly what I did. I came out, I still can't believe I did it till this day because I am very not. I still remember my friends were like, I can't believe you did that. That's so not like your personality. And I was like, I know. But I am so happy I did.
[00:30:25] I came out on Facebook Live. I told my story and one, it was so therapeutic. I didn't realize how much trauma I was kind of keeping in, because you think like after you have the child, it's kind of like poof goes away, but it doesn't, it's there. And just by one telling the story, I feel like I released it was very therapeutic, but also more importantly, it made awareness, right?
[00:30:51] I had so many people start reaching out to me. One set of people would apologize because you know, they would be the set of people that would tease me during those five or six years of trying, you know, coworkers and say, "Oh, why don't you have a baby yet? When are you get pregnant? Stop traveling 'cause you need to like start a family. And then you would just kind of have to give this like, fake smile facade and then change the subject really quickly, right? Because I'm not going to break down and start telling my friend to be like, "I have been trying." So that came out and that I really love because one, they apologized, but they also said they would never do that to anyone else, because like, you never know what's going on with someone.
[00:31:31]And then also just like, even strangers started approaching me and they said, I heard your story and it really helped me. And that's when I realized like, maybe I need to continue doing this because you know, it's so isolating, people don't talk about it. And so that's when I made my Instagram public and stuff like that.
[00:31:53] And that's also when, at this point my daughter was probably one and a half years old. And I always wanted, you know, I wanted three kids, but I always kind of so grateful that I had one, I would, part of me wouldn't even dare to even think about trying for a second. Cause I felt so lucky.
[00:32:12] I was like, ah, I'm just going to focus on my daughter. And at this point I turned to my husband, I was 37 at this point and I was like, she'd we try for a second? And we both realized how much we've been through. Cause we both like hesitated. We were like, "I don't know, that's a lot to go through," and we're like, well, if we're going to try, we have to try now. Because you know, with fertility, age is such a big factor.
[00:32:40] So one, we decided to try, what do we have to lose? Right. We can try for our second. And then the second thing is I decided to share it live like the whole IVF process from beginning to end. And I still remember my husband saying, "Well, what happens if it doesn't work? You're going to be sharing all this stuff. And then you have to go on and say it didn't work?" And I was like, "Well, yeah, if that happens, it's going to be horrible, but that's also how it is. This is the real journey, you know, it doesn't always have a happy ending. So I have to be willing to share if it doesn't work and,
[00:33:19] Lisa: That's really brave.
[00:33:22] Jasmine: Yeah. But again, it's the starting that was like the hardest part, but I think like once I started, it was so therapeutic. And this is when, you know, strangers would come up and she's like, Oh, I've been following your journey. And also that's when it didn't feel as. isolating anymore--
[00:33:41] Lisa: That's what I was just thinking, yeah. That makes sense.
[00:33:44] Jasmine: Yeah. So, it was like night and day between how I had been feeling in my fertility journey those early years and this current one, not only because I was sharing, but also because I was approaching it with this mindset, this artist mindset that I started doing towards the very end of my last cycle. And the pressure and the stress, it just wasn't there anymore.
[00:34:10]Because before it was all about having a baby, right. If I didn't have a baby, I'd never be happy in life. And there was just so much pressure there. But going through the mindset piece, I was able to figure out multiple solutions.
[00:34:25] Like I had multiple solutions going into this. I'm like, "Okay, path number one, I get pregnant. We'd have a second child. Path number two, I didn't get pregnant. So you, you kind of already planned for these different scenarios. So the pressure is off.
[00:34:39] And I also envision multiple ways to be happy, regardless of like, so there's not just one result that's going to make me happy. So we went through this fourth IVF. We did the same exact protocol as we did for a third, because as the doctor said, like, we're not going to change it because it works.
[00:34:58] And I was totally into that. And it turned out we did get pregnant and now I have a second child, a son that is two. So I have a son that's two and a daughter that's four and I call them my less than 1% miracles.
[00:35:14] Lisa: Oh, I love that.
[00:35:16] Jasmine: Yeah. And that's my story. And since then, ever since my son was born, I always wanted to share my approach and what changed things for me, because it was life. I mean, it seems, seems cheesy, but it was like life-changing in a way. And it's something that I still have not yet to hear people really talk about it, especially in the fertility areas, they talk about people talking a lot about changing diets and they do talk about mindset and meditation, but they don't talk about actionable approaches to problem-solving.
[00:35:51] So that's what I really like about my approach. Not only does it focus on yourself and maybe mindset, but it also really involves action. Taking action, always testing and iterating and always like moving forward. So no obstacles are in your way. So that's basically my story.
[00:36:12] Lisa: I love that. And as we're about to go into your approach and maybe a little bit about your online program I just want to mention, I so wish that you were around when my mom was trying to conceive, she was trying to conceive my little sister for eight years. And it wasn't until they finally gave up that they got pregnant. And they went through so much heartache and so much stress. And I really believe for years, my mom was in a deep depression. And well, I say deep, I don't know if it was a deep depression, but definitely really deeply struggling and yeah.
[00:36:47] And it felt to me like she had gotten it into her head that the only way she would be happy was having the baby. So I love hearing that part of your approach is kind of lifting up that expectation a bit and envisioning multiple ways that you could have a fulfilled life. Yeah. So do you want to go into your approach?
[00:37:09] Jasmine: Yeah, I was going to say, I couldn't agree more with, you know, you hear that all the time and people will give you advice, like, "Oh, just stop trying and you'll get pregnant." And of course, if you're actively trying, that's the last thing you want to hear and be like, okay, I'll just stop trying it and magically happen.
[00:37:25] But what I love about the approach that I've got to share with you is it allows you to actively continue trying. But we leave that stress. Kind of what you said, like it's that pressure, relieves that pressure that the baby's the only option for you being happy.
[00:37:43] Lisa: Yeah. It sounds like such a game changer.
[00:37:45] Jasmine: Yeah. So this is the gamechanger, guys. So the training, it's very simple. It's funny, it's like you take so long, you do it yourself and then I've spent a lot of time kind of breaking it down. So it's very easy to digest and also make sense. You don't have to be an artist. 'Cause I feel like some people might hear this and be like, "Oh, I'm not creative. I'm not an artist," but this has nothing really with your creativity or being an artist, it's just an approach that anyone can do. And it stems from the artist mindset. So it's a four-step approach. I call it my FREEdom Method.
[00:38:21] Because it's an acronym. The four steps spell out FREE. And so the first step is to FIND your core values, right? Because before doing anything you have to realize and know what will ultimately fulfill you, which is very specific to yourself. And it speaks to, you know, kind of what I was saying -- we're told in life to be like, this is the path to the perfect life, happiness. You should get a good job. Do this, do that. And a lot of the times, I know for me, you'd be surprised. You never stop to actually question any of that. I never stopped to actually think about what makes me happy?
[00:39:00] What, what will fulfill me? And if you don't know that and you don't get to know yourself better, then you might be chasing the wrong thing. And then you might wonder, after you get whatever you've been chasing and working so hard for, and you're not happy. You'd be like, "Well, why am I not happy? Society told me I should be happy if they did this."
[00:39:19] So the first step is to know yourself, getting to know yourself and getting to know exactly what your values are and what will make you happy and fulfilled. So you're going in the right direction. It's kind of like your compass in life.
[00:39:32] The second step is when you approach your challenge or whatever obstacle that you're facing is you want to REFRAME your obstacle or challenge, and you want to be able to step back and look at the bigger picture. Because you might be focusing your attention on something that's actually not what you should be focusing on.
[00:39:53] It's kind of like broadening your outlook so you can see the bigger picture. 'Cause you can't see the forest through the trees. And as a result, this gets you unstuck. So when you're feeling stuck in a problem, it's usually because you need to step back and reframe. So this will get you unstuck from solely focusing on that one thing, like for example, I need a child.
[00:40:14] That's the only way I'm going to be happy, right? And, and I'm not saying, and I also want to really enforce that this method does not saying to stop actively trying for your child. It's actually quite the opposite. It allows you to continue to actively try, but then also have other options and other ways to fulfill yourself.
[00:40:36]And then the third step is to then EXPLORE and find creative paths. Find the creative solutions to your challenge. So this is where you brainstorm. You get multiple perspectives and it's really fun. You get not just one solution to your problem. Like, "I must have a child," but you can collect multiple creative solutions.
[00:40:59] So you have multiple paths that will fulfill you and make you happy. And then the fourth plan is EXECUTION. You execute your plan. So you take all these amazing creative solutions that you came up with and you pick one or two to move forward with, and this will help you always know that you're not just standing still waiting for something to happen, but taking action towards it.
[00:41:23] And the result is fulfillment and happiness because as long as you keep on moving forward and knowing what fulfills you and taking action towards it, you're gonna ultimately have control over your version of happy. So that's the four-step process that I go through in my course, but also just in my way of life.
[00:41:48] And also, I will say, it doesn't only have to be exclusive to fertility. I mean, I use this in everyday life from like the small things to the big things, and it's been a game changer.
[00:42:00] Lisa: That's wonderful. And especially with this fertility journey to kind of take back the reins, it feels like you feel like you just were saying, feel more in control, less like this whole thing is just all consuming and has control over me, you know, which causes you to feel very disempowered, I think.
[00:42:20]And just to kind of, in case anybody missed the, I just want to kind of summarize that if that's okay. So it's an acronym, right? FREE for the FREEdom method. So find, F is for find your core values. R for reframe your challenge. E - explore creative paths and E - execute your plan. Was that right? Did I get that right?
[00:42:42] Jasmine: Yes, exactly, very good.
[00:42:43] Lisa: I like that clarity of, okay. That's an acronym and that's so great.
[00:42:50] Jasmine: Yeah. And I know I just said it's a game changer, but it's so freeing. I mean, that's the biggest thing, right? This pressure, all the anxiety, all the pain really that goes into your fertility journey is lifted because you, I mean, obviously you're still going to have stress. I'm not promising no stress or anxiety, but you're able to find control over the things that you can control. Like you said, there's so many things in life that you can't control and it's not beneficial to focus on those things, but to know that you can find control and other aspects and that they're all within.
[00:43:29] And it's not dependent on outside forces. Like the baby is what's going to make me happy or this money is gonna make me happy. It's never the case. Right? I mean, we may think it is, but ultimately it has to come first within you. No outside force can make you happy until you yourself are kind of in a good place.
[00:43:50] Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. And we'll share how people can find you in just a minute, but I just want to say that I recommend going over to Jasmine's website and looking at some of her videos that she has there, she goes a little more into a little more detail, I think, in the FREEdom method. And you can also sign up for a, I think it's " How To Stay Sane While You're Trying to Conceive?" Is that the thing they can sign up for on your website?
[00:44:15] Jasmine: Yeah, I mean there are multiple things. So yes, there is a PDF where it's, yeah, four things that will keep you sane while you're trying to conceive. There's also a free training that, like you said, it kind of goes more into the FREEdom method for those that are interested. And it's a free 20-minute training. You can find it at Jazzkatat.com/freetraining.
[00:44:37]My goal is to provide as many resources as possible. And it's really kind of my wishlist of what I wish I had when I was trying, because frankly, I didn't have that much. I didn't have anything. And I really want to help those trying know that they're not alone in this. And that they have the power to find control in their fertility journey. So you can, yeah, you can find that on my website.
[00:45:03] Lisa: So can you share how are the best ways for people to find you, Jas? Jas -- do you go by Jazz? I just called you Jazz. Like I've known you forever. Your social media handle, right? It's a good lead in to that.
[00:45:18] Jasmine: That's true. On Instagram, you can find me @jazzkatat. J-A-Z-Z-K-A-T-A-T.
[00:45:24] And then to get the free training, just go to jazzkatat.com/free training. And it's the same way you spell it? Jazzkatat.com
[00:45:38] Lisa: Thank you. And I'll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes as well, for anyone who wants to hop over there to link directly to you on social or the website.
[00:45:47] Jasmine: Yeah. That'd be great. And yeah. Feel free to message me if you have, if you have any questions at all, my email is on the website.
[00:45:54] Lisa: Great. Thank you, Jasmine. This has been so wonderful. I'm so excited about the ways that you're supporting people in this otherwise isolating journey, very excited about the work and excited that listeners are going to be able to, to find you and feel more supported in this journey.
[00:46:12] So thanks for the work you're doing and thanks for sharing your story as well. I think it's really inspiring.
[00:46:17] Jasmine: Well, thank you for having me. It's been an honor to talk to you and thank you for having this resource for people. I know I, for one would have loved to have this while trying, and it's such a great voice and a way for people to be part of a community. So thank you.
[00:46:37] Lisa: All right. Have a great day. Thanks again, Jazz. Bye.
[00:46:40] Jasmine: Bye.