In today’s episode, Toni & Peter share their firstborn’s birth story only about 6 weeks after the big day. Originally they had hoped for a completely unmedicated birth. They share how, as they approached and passed the due date, they tried everything under the sun to go into labor spontaneously, to no effect. The unexpected development of needing induction just after 40 weeks due to developing borderline preeclampsia then required some adjusted expectations. You’ll hear how strong self-advocacy techniques were game changers that Toni & Peter used to delay and, ultimately, avoid using pitocin for labor. They also share how their doula and Peter set up the hospital room in a way that was both meditative and celebratory, including the use of battery-operated candles, aromatherapy, music, and even a hand drum and dancing. As a psychotherapist who specializes in meditation and mindfulness, Toni details how she used those skills and tools to have an almost completely unmedicated, quick 5-hour induced labor in which she pushes the baby out in only 4 pushes. In light of the fact that most inductions are expected to take, on average, 24 hours, and even spontaneous first-time labors take 18 hours on average, this was doubly fast and efficient. Toni gives a couple of insights and recommendations to listeners for early breastfeeding, and they both reflect on the moment of meeting their daughter as well as the monumental transition into parenthood.
Episode Topics:
Trying lots of natural induction techniques
The unexpected twist of going for a prenatal just a couple days past the due date and being told they need to be induced due to becoming borderline preeclamptic
A bit of chaos trying to communicate with doula and others on phones that were about to go dead, Toni’s BP rises so that they want to induce immediately
Letting go of the hopes of a completely unmedicated birth
Peter runs home to get bag
Administering hep lock
Requested wireless monitoring
Induction starts with cytotec
Doula and Peter arrive and set up the labor room with battery operated candles, aromatherapy diffuser, music, etc. -- they do sound baths with a hand drum and a bit of dancing
Reframing the sensation of contractions as waves
Introduction of foley balloon
OB adamantly recommends pitocin after only 4 hours; they advocate to delay
Wireless monitoring very nice for more mobility
Use of shower immensely helpful; Peter does a pattern with handheld sprayer on her body while she’s in a trance-like state
Going from laboring quietly to loudly “roaring”
Gets urge to push and feels like she needs to poop
Doc/nurses can’t believe she’s 10cm and entering the pushing stage
Pushing and birth of baby in only 4 pushes
Peter discusses how emotional he became as they entered in the pushing stage and explaining what it was like to cut the umbilical cord
Toni discusses letting go of control through this journey into parenthood and gives tips on mindset and mindfulness for expectant parents
Breastfeeding tips - donor milk available in hospitals and feeding with slow-flow nipple, cup or syringe
Resources:
Toni’s music for labor:
Sponsor links:
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Toni and Peter with me. Welcome, guys.
[00:00:06] Peter: Hi, thank you so much for having us. We're excited.
[00:00:09] Lisa: Yeah, I am, too. So can you share how long ago you guys gave birth and then maybe if you'd like to share your profession? I think that's always interesting for people to just have that background.
[00:00:19] Toni: It's been about six and a half weeks.
[00:00:22] Peter: The beginning of January is when Zoe was born.
[00:00:24] Toni: And I'm a psychotherapist clinical social worker.
[00:00:29] Peter: And I am a recruiter for a large digital media company.
[00:00:34] Lisa: Great. And if at any point along this interview, if you have any reflections on the work that you do, if it has either played into your birth choices, or how has your perspective on your work changed in this journey into parenthood? If it has yet. I know it's very early on. You haven't had much reflection time, but that's just, I think an interesting thing to ponder and for people to hear, because we spend so much of our lives working .
[00:01:03] All right. Can you give me a little background on how your pregnancy went and what things did you do to prepare for this entry into parenthood?
[00:01:12] Toni: Pregnancy was pretty uneventful, I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. But I was able to control my blood sugars just with diet. So the baby was measuring at an average weight. And so there was no concerns in that area. In preparation for labor...we were hoping that the baby would come before the new year. Her due date was January 1st.
[00:01:39] And we were hoping she would come in 2019, but that's not what happened, but we undertook some natural induction measures. We were drinking the red raspberry leaf tea, eating pineapple, eating dates, bouncing on yoga balls. Oh, what else did we do? Going for long walks.
[00:02:01] Peter: Yeah, pretty much everything that you recommend or had gone over in your classes. We literally did everything.
[00:02:09] Toni: She needed a little bit of coaxing to come out. So what happened was we went for a general appointment on the 40th week, I believe. Yeah, it was after her due date and I was starting to show elevated blood pressure. And some protein in my urine. So the doctor encouraged us or strongly recommended us to go straight to the hospital.
[00:02:38] We were completely unprepared for that. I literally brought an empty bag to the doctor's office because I thought we were going to Trader Joe's after.
[00:02:48] Peter: Neither of our phones were charged on top of that. We're, like, running below 50%. Because we were just expecting to go in and then just, like, go out.
[00:02:56] Toni: Yeah. We're like, she's not coming anytime soon.
[00:02:58] We have another week, probably a few, at least a few more days. So we were totally not expecting to be sent to the hospital and we were completely unprepared. And so we went to the hospital.
[00:03:13] Peter: Yeah, we were at the hospital for about four to five hours at that point. So they had Toni hooked up to the blood, you know, get her blood pressure measured and checked.
[00:03:24] And they also drew some blood at that point as well. Yeah, they checked her urine. And then everything seemed to have kind of cleared out by that point. And then the nurse actually came back and made a recommendation that you should stay and actually go through with an induction, but we were-- very much had this idea that we'd already had this scheduled induction date for two or three days after. I said, "Oh, we just want to go home. We want to be able to kind of like, relax, actually get all our stuff," and actually be much more prepared than, than what we were at that moment. And then I think it was like, "Alright, you're, you know, you kind of need to figure it out." So we're like, "Alright, we're going to get a second and third opinion".
[00:04:12] So at that point Toni's phone was dead. My battery had less than 5%. So then she decided to make the call to her dad. And then also to our doula, who was amazing through this entire process. And during the point when she was on the phone with our doula, the phone died.
[00:04:36] Toni: Yeah, so my blood pressures were fine throughout the whole, the whole process of monitoring me, I was meditating, like, really trying to get into a calm space. And then the doctor came in and told me that my protein levels were still elevated in my urine, and that they strongly recommend that I stay for an induction. And I was really, really set on having a natural start to the birth.
[00:05:05] So I reached out to my dad who is actually an Oriental Medicine doctor. So, I trusted his wisdom, and I also reached out to the doula. But as I was speaking with the doula, my husband's phone had 5% battery life on it. And I was like, "Okay, you got to just listen to me. This is what's going on. Tell me what I should do!"
[00:05:29] Just as she was about to give me her feedback, the phone died. And also at the same moment -- I was still attached to the blood pressure machine -- the OB GYN walked in and my blood pressure had spiked.
[00:05:44] Lisa: No surprise, really? Right. That dying phone battery will do it.
[00:05:52] Toni: And so at that moment, the OB GYN was like, "We cannot let you go home." And I was trying to explain to her what just happened, but she was not really having it. She felt uncomfortable letting us go home. And she felt that since we already had an induction date scheduled for a few days later, that it was just best for us to stay. And I really had to kind of let go of that expectation that it was going to happen a certain way.
[00:06:28] Peter: We kind of talked about it for, like, a good, like, 45 minutes to an hour. So it was really about, like, what Toni said. It's like letting go that idea, that notion how we, how we wanted it to happen -- even though we had kind of planned everything out with the scheduled induction date -- versus what was best for our baby. And ultimately that's what we decided upon.
[00:06:52] Toni: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Lisa: Did they ever say, "You have preeclampsia?"
[00:06:56] Toni: No, it, it, everything was, like, borderline,
[00:06:58] Peter: That was kind of the motif through like the entire pregnancy. It's like, "Oh, it's, like, borderline this, borderline that..."
[00:07:05] Toni: The cutoff for the high blood pressure was like 90, but I was 91. So, like, everything was just kinda on the edge.
[00:07:12] It was a little bit more difficult in making the decision because it was a bit more ambivalent. It wasn't so black and white. And I felt fine. So I wanted to just trust myself. But at the end of the day, I had to kind of take a step back and connect with -- my intention was to have a healthy baby. So, you know, decided it wasn't necessarily worth the extra risk, to, you know, leave the hospital at that point. So we stayed, and Peter...
[00:07:50] Peter: I actually like, took a cab back as fast as I could. I was like directing the cab driver, I was like, "I need to get home fast, my wife is going to be in labor very shortly."
[00:08:00] So got home. Thankfully we were prepared and actually had all of our go-bag stuff ready. So I literally just had to sling three or four bags with me, make sure that she got her stuff. We brought, you know, candles, pillows, all this extra stuff, everything that we, you know, learned from your class, and then just hoofed it back within like 30 minutes.
[00:08:20] Toni: Oh, important detail. He picked up Subway on the way back to the hospital.
[00:08:23] Peter: Oh yeah. I had the Uber driver stop by Subway to actually pick up food for us.
[00:08:28] Lisa: Yay for food.
[00:08:29] Toni: Yeah. Because I knew from your course that they would cut us off. I was like, "I'm hungry. So please pick up some food." So that was helpful. We snuck some of that in.
[00:08:42] Peter: Yeah, a lot of snacks too. But yeah, so I was back at the hospital within, I think like an hour and a half, if that. Yeah. And at that point, you...
[00:08:53] Toni: Yeah, so while he was gone, they hooked up the hep lock for the IV. I told them I wasn't interested in IVs. But they put one in just in case I would need one later. Um...
[00:09:08] Lisa: I like your wording. "I wasn't interested in IVs."
[00:09:14] Toni: I wasn't interested in a lot of things, but, but I was also open, too. I had already realized at that point that things may not necessarily go exactly as I planned for. So I was leaving things open for alternate possibilities, but I was still hoping, you know, to navigate the experience in a way that felt aligned with what I was hoping for.
[00:09:44]So yeah, they put in the hep lock and they had the anesthesiologist come by, even though I also indicated that I was not interested in an epidural, but they were like, "Just in case." I also requested a wireless monitor, which they had, but they said they weren't really familiar with using. Which is interesting. So I think it was something they had on hand, but not many people requested. And so that was something really helpful, that we learned about from your course, you know, just knowing that that's an option and knowing to request it.
[00:10:24] Lisa: And you guys were at NYU, right?
[00:10:25] Toni: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Lisa: And that's one of the only hospitals in our city currently that you actually can sometimes use it, but like you said, a lot of times they're like, "Oh, we don't use it enough to be comfortable with it." So it really depends on who is on duty then.
[00:10:40] Toni: Yeah. They were like saying that they have like trouble getting it to work properly and stuff, but they respected my request. So I appreciated that.
[00:10:50]And so, yeah, while he was gone, they started the first step of the induction, which is...
[00:10:56] Lisa: Cytotec?
[00:10:57] Toni: Cytotec. Yeah.
[00:10:59] Lisa: Was that administered vaginally or orally?
[00:11:01] Toni: Orally. I think I just took it like as a pill. Yeah. I just popped it like an Advil and they gave me water and that's it. And they said that it would take like four hours. So at that point I was waiting for my husband to arrive. We contact the doula and then the fun started.
[00:11:22] Everyone came. We started setting up the room.
[00:11:26] Peter: The lights, like we turned off all the lights. We had electronic candles, like three or four sets of electronic candles
[00:11:31] Toni: We brought some, the doula brought some.
[00:11:34] Peter: She brought an aroma diffuser as well.
[00:11:37] Toni: Yeah. She had some amazing essential oil blends that she was like kind of diffusing throughout the room.
[00:11:44] Peter: A portable speaker so Toni could have like her soundtrack, you know, her music going on in the background to help with that experience
[00:11:53] Toni: We also brought a drum. We were going to have like a sound bath experience.
[00:12:00] Lisa: I love that. That is so cool.
[00:12:04] Toni: Yeah. So it was like, it was really nice to kind of like set up this like ceremonial space. Like we were coming in with intentions that it wasn't going to be laboring. It was going to be like a birth ceremony and celebration. So that's what we were like hoping for. That was kind of the intention that we were setting for this space.
[00:12:24] Lisa: Can I ask you a little bit more about the drum and sound bath? Like, how did you come to want to bring that? I know you have a meditation practice and so can you talk a little bit more about that?
[00:12:34] Toni: Yeah. I mean, it's pretty much an extension of like meditation. So I know that it helps you kind of focus inwards. And it's such a beautiful way to initiate that inward journey. And the sound bath is something that could be shared with everyone in the room. Like, so it was like kind of a communal experience. And so that's what we were hoping to create. So it was like a tool for me to help me kind of get into deeper states of meditation, but also a way to create like this sacred communal space for everyone to participate in the journey of becoming a mother and birthing a child.
[00:13:16] Peter: I also remember that there was a short amount of like dancing that we did as well.
[00:13:21] Toni: Oh yeah. I was definitely dancing.
[00:13:23] Peter: Definitely dancing.
[00:13:26] Toni: Yeah. I was dancing.
[00:13:27] Lisa: I love that.
[00:13:29] Toni: Yeah, it was like a really beautiful experience for a few hours. I did feel like kind of the tightening of my uterus, but it wasn't a painful sensation. It just felt like tightness. And, the monitor was showing that I was actually having pretty regular contractions. So I think this was another tool or idea that was really helpful that we learned in your class, which is like to reframe the experience of contractions as sensations or waves.
[00:13:58] So we're just like, kind of like noting that, "Oh, my stomach is like tightening," but it wasn't perceived as painful, for at least a few hours. And then a few hours after taking the first Cytotec, the nurse came in and then she stated that the OB GYN felt that we should incorporate another inter intervention or induction method. Which was the Foley balloon. Luckily, I had done some research before coming in for the induction about possible induction measures. So I was somewhat familiar with it. But we requested that she kind of explain the process a little bit more and like how it works and stuff like that. During that process, Peter stated...
[00:14:47] Peter: I brought up -- I was like, "Yeah, if we could, we'd want to opt out of Pitocin." And then that was met with a little bit of curiosity on why. So the midwife actually had me explain why. It's like, "Oh, the research and studies where, you know, Pitocin is like artificial oxytocin. And it doesn't really help facilitate the bonding of the mother and the child. So we want to try to not have that as part of the process."
[00:15:16] And then she, in so many words, said that she doesn't really trust that research and this is the way kind of things were done. So like, okay. But it's like, "If we can we'd like to not have that as part of our journey and process.
[00:15:29] Toni: Yeah, so they go ahead and insert the Foley balloon and they told us that it would take up to 12 hours for the dilation process to four centimeters.
[00:15:40] Lisa: And I just wanted to ask, how did it feel when they put that in? Was it painful for you or not really?
[00:15:48] Toni: It wasn't painful for me. I stated that it felt like a colonic. If anyone's had a colonic before, it's like, kind of feels like -- it's like kind of uncomfortable. There's a slight pressure down there, but it's not something that I perceived as painful.
[00:16:07] Lisa: Did they tell you how dilated and effaced you were at this point?
[00:16:11] Toni: I was, I think one centimeter dilated. So they felt that I was a good candidate for the Foley balloon.
[00:16:17] Lisa: Just open enough. Yeah.
[00:16:19] Toni: Yeah, just open enough for them to insert the balloon in. And effacement, I'm not sure. I don't know, I might be making this up like 70%. Is that a thing?
[00:16:31] Lisa: Sure, yeah. It's likely that-- if it wasn't painful when they administered it, that your cervix was quite soft.
[00:16:37] Toni: Okay.
[00:16:38] Lisa: So that's why I ask. It's always interesting to hear people's different experiences, really depending on how ripe and ready the cervix is.
[00:16:45] Toni: So yeah, after they inserted the Foley balloon, they came and checked on it. I think about an hour, hour and a half later.
[00:16:53] Peter: Yeah, hour and a half at most. Yeah.
[00:16:55] Toni: And they wanted to see my progress. So they just tugged on it. It actually came out. So they were really surprised that I dilated so quickly.
[00:17:05]So at that point, you know, we were thinking that we would have some more time to ourselves for the labor to naturally progress. But soon after they pulled out the Foley balloon, the OB GYN walked into the room. I would say kind of stormed into the room.
[00:17:24] Peter: Yeah. The energy definitely kind of shifted in the room, like kind of, yeah, "aggressive" I think is like the best way to kind of describe how she kind of came into the room.
[00:17:36] Toni: She started questioning us about the Pitocin, and she was wondering why we were not interested in Pitocin. It was a third intervention necessary for induction, according to her. And she did not understand why we were making this request of putting off the Pitocin. So at that point I was pretty shocked, that this conversation was happening so soon in the process. Because I'd only been in the hospital labor and delivery room for like four hours. So I thought that this was just getting started. They told us themselves that the Foley balloon itself would take 12 hours, but it came out in an hour.
[00:18:27] So, I mean, like, I just felt like, it felt unfair to be so rushed and pushed.
[00:18:33] Lisa: It makes you wonder how many people were waiting in the waiting room. Or like what, what this OB GYN had to do that day. Because that is really, really early to be pushing that whole Pitocin thing.
[00:18:45] Toni: Yes. My stance with her is like, "I'm not against the Pitocin. I'm just asking why this conversation was necessary at this point in the labor. It felt so soon and so rushed and just inappropriate. And I stated that I wanted to continue this conversation after I've had time to let my labor progress.
[00:19:11] And she was just standing there in that room. She stormed back out to bring in a nurse as a witness, for us to kind of repeat ourselves. And I stated to her, like, we were having this conversation based on an offhand, like, comment that my husband had made. And it wasn't something that I had stated myself, and mostly that it felt inappropriate in the timing of it.
[00:19:43]But I thought back to your course again, and you did mention that there's going to be moments where we may be pushed to make choices that may feel uncomfortable or that we're not ready to make. And so this was definitely one of those crossroads for us. And we decided to act on a suggestion that you made, which is like requesting that the doctor leave the room so that we could have some time to, you know, contemplate the choice. And she was still not having it. I was asking her to just give us a few moments of privacy so that we can discuss this as a birth team, but she just kept pushing us to make a decision in that moment.
[00:20:33] And she kept asking us like what we didn't understand.
[00:20:38] Peter: Yeah.
[00:20:38] Lisa: That feels condescending.
[00:20:40] Toni: She started using what I would say would be like fear tactics. Like she was stating that if we didn't follow through with the Pitocin, that it would lead to a failed induction,
[00:20:54] Lisa: Four hours into it? Are you kidding me? Like I could see maybe 24 hours later talking about that at all. Like, what?
[00:21:04] Toni: Exactly, exactly. And thankfully we were informed through your course like that this wasn't quite the normal course of action. Or at least the timeline felt rushed. Yeah, she was indicating that it would lead to a failed induction and our doula was great because she was kind of like the centered neutral person in the room, because I was definitely starting to feel the blood kind of like start to boil because she was really pushing me. And she was not respecting my request in that moment. And the doula, you know, asked the doctor to clarify what exactly does a failed induction mean? And the doctor stated that it meant a C-section, which, you know, I don't interpret as a failed induction. It's just another way of having the baby.
[00:21:58] Lisa: That's not helpful terminology, is it, and yet that's standard. It's what they say.
[00:22:03] Toni: Yeah. And then -- so it was just me and the doctor just standing there, head to head. And it pretty much got to a point where I really had to make a declaration to her. And I stated that this is my experience. This is my body. This is my baby. And that I would not make a choice that would harm the baby. And that I trust that this labor will progress if I'm given the time to let it progress.
[00:22:34] And so at that moment I think the doctor kind of knew that she wasn't going to be able to convince me otherwise. So it was definitely like a mama bear moment.
[00:22:47] Lisa: And it's impressive that you were able to be in that head space to advocate for yourself. Because a lot of times, so many of us don't have that. So good for you for really advocating for yourself and your baby.
[00:22:59] Toni: I mean, and I really do have to give your course a lot of credit because, you know, the language that she was using, I can see how, if someone didn't know more information about what the process is like, how it could be a really scary situation. Because she was also stating that, you know, I was being induced because of a medical emergency. And you know, I indicated to her that I wanted to be able to use the shower. And she was like, no, you can't use a shower because this is a and emergency induction. Even though, before that, other staff indicated that I could use the wireless monitoring and that it wouldn't be a problem.
[00:23:37] And so she was really trying to control the course of action. Thanks to your course, I knew kind of what the real options were for myself. So I was able to feel comfortable and confident, advocating for myself. I knew at the very least that, you know, even if we were to follow through with the doctor's recommendations that we deserved at least another hour or two at the very least.
[00:24:08] Lisa: At least.
[00:24:09] Toni: Yeah. And that's all that we were really requesting at that time.
[00:24:12] Peter: Yeah. It's like, just time, that's what it really came down to. It just felt very rushed. Like we were being forced to do something that we didn't want to do at that time.
[00:24:23] Toni: So luckily, she eventually respected my request and she left the room. And our doula was really great. She kind of saw how upsetting the experience was for me. And she was trying to find solutions or alternatives. So she said that she would kind of go around and ask the staff like, "Oh, what is the situation on the floor? Is there any other doctors that might be available to kind of come and check in on me?" That was helpful. But an hour later, everything just...
[00:24:59] Peter: Escalated. It escalated very quickly.
[00:25:03] Toni: After she left, we decided to kind of like re-center ourselves and kind of reenter that space of like, you know, celebration.
[00:25:11] So we were like listening to the music, drumming, dancing, and I think that really helped produce that natural oxytocin, which is what facilitates the labor. Right. And so I definitely started to feel the sensations more after about an hour. And we were definitely seeing the contractions on the monitor.
[00:25:40] But it still was like manageable at that point. Because I was still like able to dance and like kind of, you know, enter this like deep meditative state, but then it felt like kind of like a switch. Like an hour into it, it was like, "Oh, okay. I can manage it." And then like an hour fifteen...
[00:26:04] Peter: Yeah. It's like, I was like doing some of the, the pelvic floor opening, like, exercises from your class. That worked for a very short period of time.
[00:26:13] And like Toni said, it's like, it just...I was like, "Alright. This is not helping you anymore." It's getting really real.
[00:26:21] Toni: Oh yeah, those were, those felt good for like a little bit. But then as the sensations intensified, we needed to quickly like find other measures, comfort measures. At one point we had to switch out of the wireless monitoring, and was connected to the monitor.
[00:26:40] But then one of the nurses luckily came in and asked us if we wanted to be reconnected to the wireless monitor. And we were like, "Yes," because then that allowed us to be able to enter the bathroom, the shower.
[00:26:51] Lisa: Nice.
[00:26:52] Toni: Yeah. So they were able to do that for us. And that was game changing. The shower was such a miracle.
[00:27:04] And we also had the mood setting in there. So we also have the lights turned off in there. And then we also had candles in there and...
[00:27:11] Peter: Music in there as well.
[00:27:12] Toni: Yeah, we could hear the music in there. But as soon as the shower, the warm water hit my back, it felt like I could really sigh in relief. It was just so like immediate.
[00:27:24]And so I, I believe the doula did the Z up to, up to down.
[00:27:31] Peter: I did the Z.
[00:27:32] Toni: Oh, you did the Z? Yeah. Actually at that point, I barely had my eyes open. I was in such a deep inward state. it felt like almost like I was in a trance. It felt like an out-of-body experience.
[00:27:44] Peter: Yeah. It was pretty wild because just observing when she would be going through this succession of waves and she'd kind of come out of it It very well did seem that she actually had left her body. It was like she'd kind of snap back like, "Oh, where am I?" It's like, kind of like, "What's going on?" It was like, "This is wild that her mind actually was able to kind of like separate from her body in that instant.
[00:28:07] Lisa: That's powerful.
[00:28:10] Toni: Yeah. I mean, I think this is definitely a skill that was helpful from my career, which is the mindfulness, which is kind of being able to have awareness of what's going on in my body, but then also that, like, separation of the experience. So it was interesting. On one level it was such a visceral and primal experience.
[00:28:33] And on the other hand, like, I was like kind of noting the different stages as it progressed. I was like, "Oh, okay. Now I'm in the active stage. Oh."
[00:28:43] But in class we learned that there should be three to four to five minutes in between each wave, but it was coming pretty much right after the other, because I guess... it was an induction. So it was not following that like, I guess more spread out flow of the waves. So in that it was intense, because it felt like as I kind of rode one wave, the next one was like right there.
[00:29:08] So I don't want to scare the listeners, but it felt like, kind of like being in water, literally like riding a wave, like you're up for a few breaths of air...
[00:29:20] Lisa: Barely catching your breath.
[00:29:21] Toni: Yeah.
[00:29:22] Lisa: Yeah. That sounds like transition , but I don't know if that's where you were in the process yet.
[00:29:28] Toni: Yeah, it's hard to say. Everything happened so fast.
[00:29:31] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:29:32] Toni: From the Foley balloon to when the baby was delivered was about five hours.
[00:29:37] Lisa: Unusually short, especially for an induction, but even for just a spontaneous labor, that's really on the short end for a first labor. Forget that gradual buildup.
[00:29:49] Toni: That was like, that was like something I was, like, noting as I was like, "Oh, there is no gradual..."
[00:29:55] Lisa: Well, when -- yeah. My second labor was about that length as well. And so I know how it's like from zero to a hundred pretty fast. We were like, "Whoa! Where was that gradual buildup I was expecting?" Especially for you with a first birth.
[00:30:10] Toni: It went from being, like, this quiet, like, inward experience to this like very outward visceral, like, vocal experience, which really surprised me too. I found that it was really helpful for me to express myself vocally. I was definitely like screaming.
[00:30:32] Peter: Kind of like roaring.
[00:30:33] Toni: Roaring. Yeah. Which was really powerful. Yeah. And it was surprising to me. I was worried about the people down the hall. I was like, "I hope they're not scared."
[00:30:44] Peter: "I hope that no one can hear us." Yeah. The nurse, the nurses were really great there. Yeah. So they were very attentive and they assured us that, you know, "No one can hear you."
[00:30:55] Toni: So it was like this beautiful, like messy, like raw experience, like, like I didn't see much, but every once in a while, they had to come in and like check my blood sugars in the shower. Like the nurses were great in that they were, like, letting me kind of stay in that space while they kind of checked on me. And like, I just remember every once in a while, I did have to get out of the shower to, I guess, check how dilated I was.
[00:31:29] And just like seeing the puddle of water, like dripping into the labor and delivery room, like...
[00:31:34] Peter: It was a little messy, but they were really great about it.
[00:31:38] Toni: Yeah. They were really great about it.
[00:31:39] Lisa: So were they doing internal exams with you standing, then?
[00:31:42] Toni: No. So they only checked me twice. So like the first time they checked me, I was dilated to eight centimeters.
[00:31:51] Peter: That was the first time. Yeah. So she actually, yeah, they helped her onto the bed. At that point, it was like maybe two or three hours after they removed the, the Foley balloon. Right. Yeah. So it dilated four centimeters. They were kind of surprised, that was pretty quick, like, "All right!" And then back in the shower we go.
[00:32:14] Toni: So I was like, "Okay, we're done here. Let me go back to my happy place". So went back to the shower, and then I just felt the pressure, you know, of wanting to poop. And I kept saying that I felt like I needed to poop. And I, I know that that's like, I knew that was an indicator, that it was time to transition, possibly, that the baby was like coming out and I felt it.
[00:32:42] And like with each contraction, I was like visualizing the baby coming down further and further. And I don't know how helpful that visualization process was, but I feel like there must be some relationship between that and how quickly the labor progressed?
[00:32:57] Lisa: I have no doubt. It can be so powerful.
[00:33:00] Toni: Yeah. So like with each contraction, I just saw the baby coming down lower and lower and I felt the baby coming down lower and lower. And I started telling them that the baby's coming. And so I stepped out of the shower. And at this point they were still a little bit skeptical, you know? They were like, "Okay, like, sure, we'll check."
[00:33:23] Peter: They checked, and -- 10 centimeters. It's like, alright, you got to get the, the doctors in. We got to get ready to deliver the baby.
[00:33:31] Lisa: Woohoo! Amazing. And no Pitocin, right?
[00:33:34] Toni: No Pitocin..
[00:33:37] Lisa: You showed that doctor.
[00:33:41] Toni: Yeah, so we got on the bed and it's so interesting. I don't know if you mentioned it in your course, or if I read about it, that there's kind of a moment of like stillness before the actual pushing part where you get like kind of a moment of rest.
[00:33:56] So like, it was like kind of eerie in that, like the contractions kind of like slowed down, you know, when it was time to actually push. So it was like, "Oh, wow. Like, I feel like I have renewed energy to push, which was interesting. I was noting that. And I was wearing a bathing suit top, while in the shower, and they told me -- oh, actually I declared before we started pushing that I wanted skin-to-skin and...
[00:34:28] Peter: Delayed cord clamping.
[00:34:29] Toni: Yeah. So I barely got that out. I was like, "Skin-to-skin! Delayed cord clamping!" And so they were like, "Okay, then, you need to take off your top". So I like took off my top, but as I did, I ripped out my IV, like the hep lock out of my hand. But there's so much adrenaline rushing through you at that point. Like, I didn't feel it at all. I was just like, "Yes, let's do this!"
[00:35:00]And then like the pushing started and the beauty of a non-medicated, birth is that you really can like tune into your body. So it's just like instinctively knowing that with each contraction like that you use that momentum to push the baby down.
[00:35:17] And so just knowing to do that instinctively, I guess, I just knew that that's what was supposed to happen. And so like, I would save my energy for that contraction. And then when that contraction came, I would start to push. And the baby came after four pushes, which is, I think pretty incredible.
[00:35:37] Lisa: Woah. Yeah. Also very fast for a first timer.
[00:35:44] Toni: And I guess I want to put the disclaimer out there that she was in the ideal position and stuff like that. So she assisted me as well.
[00:35:53] Lisa: Yeah. I also truly believe that your discipline of meditation and mindfulness and visualization had everything to do with your body's ability to open that quickly. Absolutely.
[00:36:07] Toni: Yeah. I agree. I agree.
[00:36:10] Peter: Zoe agrees, too.
[00:36:15] Toni: And the cherry on top was that doctor said...
[00:36:17] Peter: yeah. The doctor said -- after Zoe was delivered, she's like, "Oh, you know what? You were right."
[00:36:23] Lisa: Yay! A little validation!
[00:36:28] Toni: But yeah, your course is helpful because throughout the whole experience, I was noting the different stages. You know, and I'm like,"Okay, now the ring of fire's coming!" It was actually not that bad. I think the body just knows what to do. And like the adrenaline is rushing at that point. So you're just focused on like having this baby in your arms.
[00:36:51] So all of it, it doesn't really phase you. So I was like preparing for the sensation that I like heard or read about, but it was, it was like nominal. And then just like the experience of having her be put in your arms, it just makes everything worth it. Like you said, like "pain with a purpose" is just such a great mantra to have throughout the experience.
[00:37:14] Lisa: I know it was a very fast pushing stage, but did you feel that instinctive urge to push?
[00:37:19] Toni: Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. I was feeling it in the shower. I was feeling that instinctive desire to push. But even for me, I was like, "This feels soon."
[00:37:32] Lisa: Sure.
[00:37:33] Toni: I was like, "I hope it's time!"
[00:37:35] Peter: It was really cool, though, the fact that you said, "All right, she's here." Like you kind of called it. The nurses came, it was like, "Seems a little soon." Because I think at that point it might've been like an hour from the first time they checked when it went from eight centimeters and they checked, like, "Oh wow!" Ten centimeters, like, fully dilated. I think even they were kind of surprised, too.
[00:37:55] Lisa: So you gave birth. Did they have you be on your back or in a semi-reclined position? Or how, how did you give birth?
[00:38:01] Toni: Like kind of...
[00:38:02] Peter: Semi- reclined? Yeah. We had requested the birthing bar,
[00:38:06] Lisa: The squatting bar?
[00:38:09] Toni: Yeah. At that point, I didn't feel like -- that didn't feel right for me. I thought I would use that, but it was nice to kind of be reclined.
[00:38:19] Lisa: More relaxed, sure.
[00:38:21] Toni: Like it was nice to have that support.
[00:38:24] Lisa: So you met your Zoe. Any reflections on what it was like meeting her for the first time?
[00:38:30] Peter: For me, I was actually much more emotional when we were transitioning from the shower to the bed. I was like, "Oh, we're about to meet her!"
[00:38:41] Lisa: So even before you met her. Beautiful.
[00:38:46] Peter: I think like more realizing how much work Toni was going through up until that point. She went through all of this and we're like, finally at that moment. So that was really powerful. And then after that, yeah, it just, the pushing just like--came and went by like that. I was like, "Oh wow. It's already done? I get to cut the cord?" I was like, "Yeah, I'll do it."
[00:39:08] Lisa: What was that like? You want to describe cutting the cord?
[00:39:12] Peter: I looked at plenty of pictures online on what the placenta and what the umbilical cord would look like, and I was not prepared. But yeah, I think it just kind of felt, um, like trying to cut like a really thick noodle. Yeah, it was interesting because I couldn't get it really down the first time, but then it was kinda like shearing through paper going through the second time. So, very interesting.
[00:39:34] Lisa: And no spurting or grossness?
[00:39:37] Peter: No.
[00:39:39] Lisa: Usually there's not. Occasionally there is. So you did that ceremonial piece. And Toni, how about you--about meeting your baby?
[00:39:48] It's okay if you get choked up, it's a huge life experience.
[00:39:54] Toni: Yeah. I mean, I was so grateful at that point, for the experience that I had just gone through.
[00:40:03] I joked with people that being able to have an unmedicated natural birth was like my version of climbing Mount Everest. I just felt like I had climbed Mount Everest and, you know, I was like on my way down to claim my prize, which is my baby. And yeah, I mean, as soon as they put her on my chest, I couldn't stop saying like, "My baby. My baby. She's here."
[00:40:32] The whole pregnancy labor process just really awakens you to the beautiful process of what it means to become a human being. It just feels like such a miracle, you know, an act of love can create something so beautiful, and that the woman's body kind of just knows what to do. And I think this is like one of the most powerful lessons I've learned through the pregnancy and the birthing process is that we try so hard to control our lives sometimes, and we try to push things to be a certain way. But sometimes there's more power and beauty in just letting things kind of like come to be in its own time. Like nature has kind of figured everything out for us, right? Like there's nothing that we can do to speed up the gestational process of having a baby. Right. It's going to be nine months.
[00:41:41] It's like kind of surrendering is kind of a -- I guess almost spiritual lesson that I'm taking away from this whole experience. Life will unfold as it should in its own time. And just to kind of let go and enjoy the process. And so I feel like I've kind of embodied that. Throughout the process, there's been moments where we've had to kind of practice that surrendering . Yeah, it's been such a powerful and empowering experience.
[00:42:14] Peter: Yeah, I think for me with the whole birth, it's really beautiful. And I'd like to thank you and give your course a lot of credit, too, it helped alleviate a lot of the anxiety and even like the self-doubt I had going into becoming a parent, and actually even just like supporting Toni as well through the whole process. So luckily, she's been infinitely patient as well. Having the online course for Birth Matters also helped out a lot, too. Because we were like the last one in our group to, you know, give birth. And we took the class, what, like four months, I think, before....
[00:42:54] Lisa: Yeah. So you did the in-person and then you added on the online, which is a newer offering that I've done, as I realized, "Oh wait, that could be helpful for someone -- like you're saying, if you take it earlier in pregnancy, you'd be able to review later.
[00:43:08] Peter: Oh, yeah, definitely helped because I started reviewing it like in mid-December.
[00:43:11] Toni: Yeah. He was studying hard.
[00:43:13] Peter: So that, yeah, that definitely did help as far as remembering some of the things that we learned in class, even practicing the exercises and -- thinking about it now actually also what was great about the doula was being able to switch off like, you know, shifts when we're doing, you know, some of the actual physical hands-on work with Toni.
[00:43:32] Toni: Those are like two suggestions that I would have for people is to take a birthing class, especially yours.
[00:43:39] Lisa: Thanks!
[00:43:40] Toni: And hire a doula. You know, ours was really great.
[00:43:43] Lisa: Can you remind me how you found your doula and when did you hire them?
[00:43:47] Toni: We found her through a link on your website. I think it was like a doula collective. I forget which one, I think you had a few on your website. So we went to a doula speed dating event for that collective, and she was actually a doula that wasn't listed on their website yet. So it was just like, felt like such an incredible chance meeting. Because she was just like the perfect doula for us.
[00:44:17] Peter: Something that was interesting was you saw her from across the room, it was like, like, " I have a feeling that she is the one. I like her energy, I like her presence." Like, okay. And then she was like the last one we actually were able to squeeze in before the event, the speed dating event ended, and it was like, "Yes, she's the one."
[00:44:32] Lisa: Wonderful. Do you want to share her name and, and maybe I can link to her website, if she has one, in the show notes.
[00:44:39] Toni: Blaine Morris.
[00:44:40] Lisa: Blaine Morris.
[00:44:41] Toni: Her website is sanasanaroatan.com. S a N a s a N a r O a T a n.com
[00:44:57] Lisa: Great. I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes. Thanks.
[00:45:02] Yeah, it sounds like she was really a great support for you guys. And do you remember about how many weeks you were when you hired her?
[00:45:09] Toni: I think maybe end of second trimester. End of second, beginning of third. Around there.
[00:45:18] Lisa: So did you have like one or two prenatals with her before the big day?
[00:45:22] Toni: Yeah, we had two.
[00:45:23] Peter: Two prenatal meetings. Yeah.
[00:45:25] Lisa: And then did she come visit you after the birth?
[00:45:29] Toni: She was supposed to, but she ended up getting sick and then just the timing...
[00:45:33] Lisa: Sure. Yeah. That's usually optional, the postpartum visit. Kind of up to the parents as to whether they want that or not.
[00:45:40] Toni: I mean, but she's great because she doesn't necessarily limit it to one or two. So if we wanted more prenatal visits, it's like, for her, it's important to kind of establish that comfort level before having the baby. So I really appreciated that she had this mindset of like wanting to go above and beyond.
[00:45:57] Lisa: Nice. Well, so two last things that I would like to ask. This first one, just be thinking about, is there anything that you haven't gotten to share that you'd like to share? And then, Toni, I specifically wanted to ask you, are there any resources or even brief techniques you could demonstrate that might be helpful for, expectant parents or new parents in terms of your meditation practice? Or any breath work, any little insights or resources, websites, or books or YouTube videos or any of that kind of thing?
[00:46:29] Toni: I really believe in mindset. So I guess as my baby's due date came and went, I started to realize that there was a strong possibility that I was going to be induced.
[00:46:44] So I started actually researching and looking up positive induction birth stories. So just knowing that this is possible, I think, was really helpful. So I made sure that everything that I was reading was positive. I mean, I know that other things can happen. There are things outside of our control, but I wanted to make sure that, you know, I was entering that space with possibility rather than fear.
[00:47:13] So I think that is really powerful. It's just like continuing to filter out stories that might scare you and just focusing on stories that kind of empower you, I think was probably my most helpful thing. And I listened to just a bunch of random birthing hypnosis videos on YouTube. There wasn't anything that I was specifically looking for, but I continued with that idea of , you know, staying in that mindset of possibility.
[00:47:43]So I think just like, I think if people just search YouTube, it's such a great resource, like looking up like hypnobirthing videos or hypnosis for birthing videos on YouTube I think are really great. Yeah, just continuing a mindfulness or meditation practice, you know, throughout your pregnancy and after pregnancy or -- after pregnancy is being a parent....
[00:48:12] Peter: The fourth trimester, right?
[00:48:14] Toni: It's also very helpful too, as a new parent, for sure.
[00:48:19] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:48:20] Toni: So that would be like, my main recommendation is just like, trying to monitor the mindset as you enter this process, or as you're going along this journey.
[00:48:32] Lisa: Great. Thank you. Any other reflections, anything you haven't gotten to share? Either of you?
[00:48:38] Toni: Oh, I wish there was a parenting class that was like your birth class.
[00:48:45] Peter: There might be maybe like when the baby's older, but....
[00:48:50] Lisa: Yeah, those are harder to find, it seems like.
[00:48:52] Peter: Yeah.
[00:48:52] Toni: I don't know if this is outside the scope of your podcast, that I guess the hiccup that we experienced was that our baby ended up developing jaundice.
[00:49:02] And so she had to be re-admitted to the hospital. And during that time, we were feeding her formula from like the pre-made bottles. I don't know if this would be helpful for your listeners, but just knowing some of the options, which is like hospitals offer donor breast milk. Which, you know, we didn't really know we had access to, so that would have been a choice that maybe we would have made differently is like feeding her the donor breast milk. And also, if your listeners plan on breastfeeding, like maybe getting a slow flow nipple, instead of the one that comes with the formula I think will also help with that transition and breastfeeding.
[00:49:46] Because the baby will not be used to the instant gratification...
[00:49:50] Lisa: Also to know that cup feeding or syringe feeding is also another option. When they're brand new and they haven't gotten down breastfeeding yet, to be fed that way is going to...
[00:50:01] Toni: Facilitate the breastfeeding relationship.
[00:50:03] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Thank you so much for bringing up the donor breast milk. It is available at some of our local hospitals, but not all. So you just need to check and ask, but that's a great thing for them to know to ask for, if it's needed. Thank you.
[00:50:21] Toni: But thank you so much. You and the doula, we would say you guys were the Sherpas of our birth experience. We couldn't have done it without you. I mean, we would have done it, but it wouldn't have been, obviously...
[00:50:35] Peter: The experience that ... the great experience that we had.
[00:50:38] Toni: Yeah.
[00:50:39] Peter: For sure. So thank you.
[00:50:41] Lisa: It is my honor, and my pleasure to know you and to have been some kind of guide in even a small way in your journey. So I have loved hearing this story. Thank you so much for taking the time, especially this early on in parenthood when I know you're still exhausted, I'm sure. And so I hope to see you guys and see you at a future reunion and to meet Zoe in person at some point.
[00:51:07] Peter: Thank you, Lisa.
[00:51:08] Lisa: Bye.