Birth Matters Podcast, Ep 130 - Hypertension Induction w/o Pain Meds for 2nd Birth

Following Michelle’s first baby’s unmedicated hospital birth, which she shared in Episode 86, Michelle is surprised to be told at around 39 weeks that she needs to go straight to the hospital to be induced due to gestational hypertension. She advocates to go home to say goodbye to her son and grab her bag. Once she checks into the hospital for the induction, it goes much more efficiently than anticipated and she’s able to give birth again without pain medications and this time without tearing, using all kinds of proactive comfort measures with the support of her husband and doula. She also describes some of the guilt she felt and grief she experienced in having a second baby at different points in pregnancy and beyond. This story will be particularly supportive to folks who have hypertension, are being induced, and/or are having a 2nd baby or are thinking about it for sometime down the road.

Resources:

• Dr. Louis Vella, chiropractor (Astoria, Queens)

• Chana Diamond, doula

• East River Doula Collective

Sponsor links:

• Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)

• Free “Smart Questions to Ask Your Care Provider” Checklist

• East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)

• Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)

• Birth Matters Online/Self-Paced Course

*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.

Episode Topics:

1. Introduction and Background

• Michelle’s previous appearance and first birth story

• Family update: children’s ages, living in Astoria, marriage, and family plans

• Reflections on having children close in age and future family size

2. Transition to Motherhood and Family Planning

• Decision to become a stay-at-home mom

• Experiences with two children under two

• Thoughts on age gaps between children and future pregnancies

• Personal experience with large sibling age gaps

3. Conception and Early Pregnancy

• Conception story after a trip to Greece

• Nursing, return of menstrual cycle, and casual approach to conception

• Surprise and excitement at positive pregnancy test

• Immediate feelings of guilt about having another baby so soon

4. Emotional Adjustments in Early Pregnancy

• Processing emotions about expanding the family

• Navigating guilt and emotional challenges

• Early OB appointments and confirmation of pregnancy

5. Pregnancy Experience

• Differences between first and second pregnancies

• Fatigue and challenges with a toddler at home

• Husband’s work schedule and solo parenting

• Gender reveal: process and family reactions

6. Prenatal Testing and Medical Concerns

• Nuchal scan and genetic counseling referral

• Decision-making around CVS and amniocentesis

• Monitoring baby’s growth and measurements

• Concerns about baby measuring small, especially limbs

• Emotional impact of ongoing medical monitoring

7. Coping with Medical Anxiety

• Michelle’s history of medical anxiety

• How motherhood changed her approach to medical situations

• Support from her OB and confidence from previous birth experience

8. Birth Preparation

• Working with a doula (Chana Diamond)

• Securing support and backup plans

• Physical discomforts: back pain, chiropractic care

• Late pregnancy symptoms: itching, Braxton Hicks, prodromal labor

• Emotional preparation and feelings of grief/guilt about changing family dynamics

9. Managing Toddler’s Transition

• Planning a night away before birth to prepare toddler for separation

• Toddler’s emotional reaction to parents’ absence

• Strategies for managing the transition for the older child

10. Final Weeks of Pregnancy

• Rising blood pressure and monitoring

• Preparing for possible induction

• Balancing medical advice with personal birth preferences

11. Labor and Delivery

• Details of the 39-week OB appointment and decision to go to triage

• Emotional response to possible induction

• Hospital experience: monitoring, staff interactions, and decision-making

• Induction process: Foley balloon, Pitocin, and labor progression

• Managing labor without an epidural

• Support from husband and doula during labor

• Rapid progression to active labor and delivery

• Pushing and birth of baby Ivy

12. Immediate Postpartum Experience

• Golden hour and initial bonding with baby

• Emotional complexity: missing her son while bonding with newborn

• Hospital stay: sleep challenges, baby’s hearing test, and minor medical concerns

13. Coming Home and Early Postpartum

• Reuniting with toddler and introducing new baby

• Toddler’s adjustment to sibling

• Early postpartum challenges: balancing care for two children, fatigue, and limited support

• Physical recovery: bleeding, passing tissue, and follow-up care

14. Breastfeeding Journey

• Breastfeeding experiences with both children

• Challenges with clogs and mastitis

• Self-weaning of second child and emotional impact

• Reflections on the end of breastfeeding and reclaiming her body

15. Reflections on Parenting Two Children

• Differences between first and second child

• Adjusting expectations and embracing each child’s uniqueness

• Sibling relationship development

• Looking forward to time with both children

16. Postpartum Health and Recovery

• Blood pressure monitoring at home

• Slower physical recovery compared to first postpartum experience

• Importance of rest and support

17. Final Reflections and Advice

• Emotional journey of expanding the family

• Reassurance for parents about love expanding with each child

• Encouragement for those facing induction or unexpected birth scenarios

• Importance of supportive care providers and flexible expectations

Interview Transcript

Lisa (0s): You are listening to the Birth Matters podcast, episode 130. 

Michelle (4s): With my first, I was like, all my attention was focused on preparing for labor and delivery and I just had no time. It's a luxury right to do that. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was getting increasingly emotional about bringing a baby into the family and how it was gonna affect our son and so that was all hard for me. The guilt went away for a while and then towards the end of the pregnancy it was a countdown. Our last weeks together, our last time, I'm gonna do this with you alone the last time. You're not gonna be a big brother. 

It was really emotional for me. 

Lisa (45s): Hey there and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host Lisa Graves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC, and director of East River Doula Collective. I'm a childbirth educator, birth doula and lactation counselor, and I've been passionately supporting growing families since 2009. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence, info, and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. 

Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you enjoy this show, we'd be incredibly grateful if you'd share it with a friend. You can follow and share our posts on social media at Birth Matters NYC, or simply tell them to search for Birth Matters wherever they listen to podcasts. I decided to put today's birth story back to back with the one before it because they're both stories about Hypertension and are fairly different stories. 

So I thought the contrast might be really helpful to my dear listeners. So If you didn't yet listen to episode 129 in which Liz shares her story, I'd recommend going back and listening to that either before or after this one. Here's a little bit about today's story, which is shared by Michelle Following Michelle's first baby's unmedicated hospital birth, which she shared in Episode 86. Michelle is surprised to be told at around 39 weeks that she needs to go straight to the hospital to be induced due to gestational hypertension. 

She advocates to go home to say goodbye to her son and grab her bag. Once she checks into the hospital for the induction, it goes much more efficiently than anticipated and she's able to give birth again without pain medications and this time without tearing. Using all kinds of proactive comfort measures with the support of her husband and doula. She also describes some of the guilt she felt and grief she experienced in having a second baby at different points in pregnancy and beyond. 

This story will be particularly supportive to folks who have Hypertension are being induced and or are having a second baby or are thinking about it for some time down the road. Before we jump in, I wanted to spread the word that we have officially posted Birth Matters group class series dates all the way through to the end of December. So be sure to grab your spot whether you prefer the in-person or virtual format. If a date you see isn't yet open for registration, you can email us to be put on the waitlist and we'll be sure to notify you the moment we open your preferred series up for registration. 

Visit Birth Matters nyc.com for all the class options, whether you want group classes, which can be in person or virtual If you want private classes or we also have an on your own schedule online course option. Okay, now let's hear from Michelle. 

Michelle (3m 54s): My name is Michelle. I've lived in Astoria for the last six plus years. My husband Gus or Costa, he has two names, but my husband Gus and I moved here when we got married, which we're approaching our six year anniversary. And I'm a mom to two amazing little babies. They're both still my babies. My son Van is two and a half and my daughter Ivy is about to turn one. So I had two under two for a while and that was something that I will share with you. 

But we were really excited about it and always wanted to have our family have close age gaps and just wanted a lot of little people around us for as long as we could and I think we're still likely gonna have more children, right? Not right now, but you know, at some point. But yeah, that's us. 

Lisa (4m 49s): Since we last recorded your first story, I was curious, you had shared that you were, you all were thinking about like maybe four kids or so, and I was wondering if that still was the hope of 

Michelle (5m 2s): Plan. It's still like, it's still the plan I think, but I also think this time around I want a little bit of a larger age gap. I just feel like my body and mine needs like a little bit of a break. It's been a lot with them this little and it's definitely getting easier. The transition for me, I think the transition from zero to one was very seamless for me. There were challenges of course, and I was actually working full-time when I had my son and went back to work. 

I'm a preschool teacher so I finished out working that school year and then we made the decision, it was actually right before I got pregnant with iv, but we made the decision that I was gonna stay home. It was just what was best for our family. Childcare is super expensive. We knew we wanted to have another baby soon and so we made the decision for me to be a stay at home mom, which I am doing now and I love. But now that I see and I'm in it, I'm like maybe three but maybe four. Part of me, part of us still wants four. 

But now that I'm having this, like I said, we're gonna take a little bit of a break then we're, well do the next two have to be back to back if we have two. So we'll see. I can, I think I can say with confidence that we'll have another and then we'll take it from there. 

Lisa (6m 17s): Yeah, there's time and plans can change and Exactly, exactly. It all is fluid and evolves. And you were sharing with me that like you have an 18 year gap between you and a sibling, right? 

Michelle (6m 27s): Yes I do. Yeah. 

Lisa (6m 29s): So there you go. Like there's time, there's 

Michelle (6m 31s): Time. 

Lisa (6m 32s): I don't know If you wanna give birth that widely spaced or not but I 

Michelle (6m 36s): Don't think so. But there is time and if whatever God's plan is for us is the plan. So 

Lisa (6m 41s): Cool. Thank you. So what would you like to share about your conception or pregnancy journey? 

Michelle (6m 49s): So as you already know, as I shared, we did know that we wanted to have at least our first two children close together. So when we found out we were pregnant with Ivy, we actually had, it was actually the day that we returned from a few week trip in Greece, summer of 2022. And our sun band had turned one while we were on this trip and we were, we came home from this trip and I had just casually over the whole year of van's life, been taking pregnancy tests once in a while just to confirm that I wasn't pregnant, I was exclusively nursing, I did not have a cycle at all. 

So I just wanted to be sure. So every once in a while I would just take a test and say, okay, not pregnant. Right before we left on this trip, I actually, my period returned for the first time and I didn't get it for, It was like I was like 11 months postpartum. So then I was just more aware of, okay, this might be more of a possibility. My cycle's coming back, things are moving and I don't know what can happen. And we were just leaving it up to faith. Hopefully if it happened, if it didn't and we were not in a rush, but also not scheduling and tracking and doing all those kinds of things when a lot of couples who are trying to conceive too. 

So we flew home from this trip, we were gone for three weeks. Our son turned one while we were away and the night we landed I was like, let's just take a test to make sure I'm not pregnant. And I was pregnant. So that was exciting, very exciting. We were, I shouldn't say we were shocked, we knew it was possible but we were surprised and it was a great surprise and our family was over the moon but also couldn't believe it. He was so little at the time. I think one thing I'll share about that finding out that we were expecting, again, I was so excited and felt immediately connected to this baby and just dreaming about who this baby was and couldn't wait for a van to have a sibling, whoever this sibling was gonna be. 

But I was not prepared for this immediate guilt. I felt that I was going to be bringing in another baby when my oldest was still so little. Like I just, it was really hard for me. Like the first I, I remember until I went in for an ultrasound, like I had confirmed the pregnancy, I had actually found out I was pregnant, had my annual OB appointment like within that week. So it was perfect timing. I was going to the doctor anyway and my plan was just to walk in and say, Hey Dr. 

Tewa who's my doctor for the end of my first pregnancy and Ivy's whole second pregnancy was Dr. Tewa Rutherford from Cornell who I absolutely adore. And my plan was just to go in and say Hey, I haven't seen you but I think I'm pregnant. Took a test and that's what happened. And she confirmed it with blood work but it was a few weeks until we were gonna go back in for an ultrasound and it definitely took me like that first month to really come to terms with okay, you're gonna be bringing another baby into our family and it's going to be the best thing for our son even though it's gonna be a big transition for all of us and I'm still gonna have my time with him and I still have nine more months. 

Just him and I, it was emotional for me, very emotional and I just didn't ever think that was a feeling that was gonna come up for me. No one prepared me for it, nobody talked about it. I just had no idea. So that came and went. The whole rest of my pregnancy was, I shouldn't say difficult 'cause it wasn't, but some challenges along the way. It was definitely hard in the beginning. I wasn't sick but I was tired and I had a one-year-old at home so there was no laying on the couch. Whenever I felt exhausted or I tried to lay down when he took his nap, he was taking just like one nap a day. 

He was still getting up at whatever time he wanted to get up in the morning. And my husband works a lot so really I'm home a lot by myself most days I have long days at home alone. So that felt hard. I remember comparing it to my first pregnancy where I would just, you know, when I wanted to rest I rested when I wanted to nap, I napped when I wanted to stay in bed if I had the day off or during summer vacation till 10 o'clock in the morning I did that. But with a 1-year-old you can't do that. So I was definitely busy chasing after him. 

But overall I felt really good. We went in for our first ultrasound. We found out was I, I wanna say it was in October so I found out I was pregnant at the end of August. We found out that we were having a little girl. We did like a little gender reveal with our parents and our siblings, which is still like a huge family event 'cause we're both one of four kids. That was so exciting. What did, 

Lisa (11m 30s): How did you do the gender reveal? I'm just curious.

Michelle (11m 31s): We did, we just did a cake. We cut a cake. Actually one of my husband's patients is a baker And he made the cake for us. My mother-in-law loves to bake but we really didn't want anybody in the family to know the gender. So it was so great. We didn't have to have anybody keep the gender. It was somebody totally outside of our circle and we didn't know until we cut the cake and our family didn't know. And that was so, so much fun. And with our first, we didn't know what we were having until birth. So it was, this was like a nice And you thought 

Lisa (11m 58s): You were having a girl the first time, right? 

Michelle: I thought I was having a girl the first time. 

Lisa: So you got your girl second time 

Michelle (12m 3s): I got My girl. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, oh I, part of me was, I would've been so excited for Van to have a brother like back to back like that. But when I saw the pink, I was just like over the moon. So we all were so happy that we were having a girl. And then like shortly after that, or maybe it was that week, I remember being in limbo at this time. We went for our nuchal scan. I did the NIPT test and everything came back great. So my blood work was all good. I had done a genetic blood work panel as the mother and like I tested for no abnormalities, which was great. 

My doctor was so happy about that. She's like you're not a carrier for anything. Which is just fantastic. NIPT test came back great. But then at my nuchal scan they brought us in, we did the scan. My husband was able to come to so many more appointments this time around because the first time around was still like a lot of COVID protocols And he could only come to certain appointments and that felt really hard. So it was nice whenever he was able to make it work with work, he came especially for all the big tests like scans and things like that. So we actually, yeah, we were able to go in for the scan together. 

I remember like a doctor from maternal fetal medicine coming in at the end of the scan, all my scans for Cornell were at the hospital so they weren't with my doctor, like these bigger anatomy scans. And she came in this doctor that we didn't know and she said, I'm not so worried but I'm a little worried you're the baby's measuring their neck measurement, the fluid in the neck is measuring at the higher end of what they like to see. Like borderline for I guess any markers for conditions that need to be monitored. 

So she was unclear but well we're gonna send you, we're gonna refer you out to genetic counseling. Which was very scary because oh the blood work came back great. So we were like, well what does this mean and are you seeing any other markers? And she said No, but this is just policy at the hospital. We refer you to talk to somebody from genetics. So we actually were able to zoom with somebody that day, which was great 'cause It was like instant 

Lisa (14m 13s): Good. Yeah, didn't let that anxiety simmer. 

Michelle (14m 15s): Exactly. So that was good. But also again like unclear, they just kept talking about what the hospital recommends and basically what they were recommending for us to do at that time was to either agree to do a CVS test or if we wanted to wait and monitor for four more weeks, then we can choose to possibly do an amniocentesis if we wanted to. So then I followed up with my OB Dr. Tewa and I was like, well what do you think? And she was like, I don't see any other markers. 

The baby looks great. I think unless you want this information, if it's gonna change anything for you, then you can do the tests. If it's not and you're gonna continue with this pregnancy, whatever the results are, then you don't need to. And we talked and thought a lot about it and my husband and I decided that we just were gonna wait and see. We didn't feel that the risks associated with these tests were worth the information. So we waited and every subsequent scan we went to after that for the most part in the beginning looked good. 

The next one we had went to, they scheduled one I think at 16 weeks, which was not typical. I think I would've waited till 20 if this hadn't happened. The baby looked great. That measurement was in a much more normal range. And then around my anatomy scan, again, I shouldn't say issues but like some concerns they were a little concerned about the baby's measurement overall. She was small so they wanted to monitor me a little more closely and have me come in every four weeks for a growth scan instead of these like longer stretches. 

And what was a little concerning to everybody was that she was measuring overall small, which my son was small, I'm very short, I'm small so we're not like big people, we don't make big babies. But they were a little concerned about her overall measurements but mostly like her limbs were measuring very short. So every time they would do the measurements and the scans, her arms and legs would come out like way under the norm for her body. But her head was also measuring small. So everyone was like, well that's good. 

She doesn't have a very large head and small stature. So there was just a lot of like the whole pregnancy was like we would do the scans and we would see the numbers like in the portal, right? And that all felt really scary looking at the data. But then everyone would assure us it's probably fine. She doesn't have any other markers for other genetic conditions. You did the NIPT test like that all came back great, it's 99.9% accu, whatever the number is. So it was just a different experience than with our first, we had no hiccups with the baby and I was sick at one point with our first when the pregnancy had the shingles, but we were, everything was like smooth sailing and this was like every time we went to the doctor or for a scan, we just had this like new anxiety and our moms were both like really worried about it. 

So we just, towards the end, Gus and I looked at each other and we're like, whoever, whoever this baby is like whatever happened, we're just gonna cross that bridge when we get there. A lot of It was like, well you're really late now, it's in your third trimester and we're just gonna have to see like when she's born we spoke to our pediatrician who we love and have a really great relationship with. And he wasn't concerned, also felt the same was like cross that bridge when we get there. She's probably likely gonna be fine and these scans not, are not always accurate. So, and the closer you get to the term of your pregnancy, they just, the bigger the baby gets, the harder it is for them to measure. 

You know? So I'm sure you have thoughts on that but 

Lisa (17m 50s): Yeah. Well I wanted to ask you because you shared some in your last story about your history of medical anxiety. Yeah. You sound so peaceful as you're sharing this and I'm just curious, was it that way in real time or has becoming a mother affected that aspect of your experience? 

Michelle (18m 11s): I think that's what it is. I think some of the, some of the things that just used to cause so much anxiety before becoming a mom had just, I don't know if they've gotten smaller. I don't know if they've dissipated. It's still not easy for me. I'm not like a proponent for going to the doctor and giving blood work and like doing these things that were really hard for me. But they're so much easier now, so much. And I've really learned with so many different techniques and therapy and how to just control like those emotions and sensations and not panic the way that I used to panic often. 

So it was definitely a new experience for me, like going through this pregnancy. I just knew more of what to expect. And my last, my first labor and delivery went so incredible that I was so inspired by that to just keep doing the same thing. She was confident and confident. Yeah. And my doctor really knew me this time around. She was with me from the start of my pregnancy, which she wasn't the first pregnancy but she was with me from the start. She knew that I was really knowledgeable about birth and I had a successful medication free labor and delivery the first time and then that was my goal again this time around. 

And so she was really great the whole time and I met with a few other doctors on the team again just to like refresh because I knew there was a slim chance of having her at my delivery unless I was delivering on a Tuesday when it was her on-call day at the hospital or whatever that was. So that was always like a guessing game. Who's gonna be, who's gonna be there when we come deliver. And so yeah, so just towards the end, like I said, we were just having some anxieties about the baby, but I felt good just tired from chasing a toddler. And we also wanna share that we did have a doula with us from the collective. 

We had our amazing doula, Chana Diamond, who funny enough was not my doula with my first pregnancy, had another amazing doula through the collective. But when I first started looking into doulas, I really wanted to work with Chana and she was unavailable for my first pregnancy during that time. So when I found out I was pregnant again, I had already had in the back of my mind that I really wanted to see if she had availability. She also had worked just recently with one of my best friends and they had such a great experience. I just knew we would like vibe and so we connected again, reconnected and she was available and I was like, book like you are booked and Lisa, you'll laugh because we just had, because we're neighbors and we live around the block. 

I'm like, Lisa, you're my backup in case. 

Lisa (20m 36s): Yep. I was like, I hope I get to attend her birth.

Michelle (20m 42s): I wish. So in the fall we secured all that. Chana was ready to go and on board and that's pretty much it. The weeks leading up to giving birth, I was super tired, like I said, chasing my son. I had a lot of back pain this pregnancy. I wound up going to see one of our local chiropractors that sees a lot of women in pregnancy who I know Lisa, Dr. Vela, he is amazing. He helped a lot. I never really knew what he was doing to help me. 

It was out of my realm of understanding. But it worked And he was great. And so 

Lisa (21m 16s): I always call him voodoo. I'm like, I don't know what voodoo he does, but he does some amazing voodoo. Yep, 

Michelle (21m 21s): Yep. So he is great. And yeah, we just get monitoring. A few little things came up like at the very end of my pregnancy I was having some weird symptoms. I was very itchy and I dunno If you remember this, Lisa, I reached out to you. They like had me tested for cholestasis to make sure like that wasn't an issue and it wasn't, thank God. And then those last few weeks I just, I was having a lot of wrecks and hicks, like a lot of prodromal stuff going on, much more than my first. And I was just done. Everything felt more intense this time around. 

Like with the back to back pregnancies, my body was tired, I wasn't resting, I wasn't sleeping. We had a lot going on like in our personal life with family and some medical issues going on. And so it was just like a lot of stress leading up to her, her birth. And I felt like I had no time to prepare for her birth. I remember reaching out to you Lisa and I was like, If you had to gimme like three lessons in your birth class review, what would they be? Or what, you know, I was just trying to, with my first, I was like all my attention was focused on preparing for labor and delivery and I just had no time. 

It was luxury 

Lisa (22m 26s): Right? 

Michelle (22m 27s): To do that. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was getting increasingly emotional about bringing a baby into the family and how it was gonna affect our son. And so that was all hard for me. I was, the guilt was like, it had went away for a while and then towards the end of the pregnancy It was like a countdown. Our last weeks together, our last time, I'm gonna do this with you alone the last time you're not gonna be a big brother. Like just, it was really emotional for me. But otherwise I felt decent as decent I guess as you can at the end then 

Lisa (22m 58s): Before we move on. Yeah. Would you mind if we just, I just would love to linger a little bit more on what you were just saying 'cause I actually had made a mental note to come back to what you said at the beginning of the pregnancy along those lines. Yeah. And then you just came back to it, right? So I'm just, would you describe that as a kind of grief? Yeah. You'd use the word guilt. Yeah. Early on in the pregnancy. 

Michelle (23m 21s): Yeah. Grief was definitely something. I know every parent who has more than one child feels like this because they tell me. But just this feeling of I know I'm gonna love this baby but no one will compare to my first like how will I ever love anybody else the way I love my first, it just, I really couldn't understand how my heart would allow that. And some moms had told me like, your heart doesn't have to split, it will just get bigger and you'll, you'll figure it out and you're gonna learn to manage the emotions of yourself in both babies. 

And the love just comes. And I just kept trusting that would be what would happen. But until it happened I couldn't believe it. There was nothing that could convince me that I would ever love another child like my first born. 

Lisa (24m 8s): It's wild isn't it? But there's this cognitive disconnect for most of us as we're growing our families of wait a minute, how do we do this? How do we juggle? It's the love and the time. It's wild and the attention and it that's, that's hard to cognitively absorb and process so wild as we're heading toward it and complicated in a different way when you're actually in it. Right. Yeah. And I'll, I'll link also to another story because there was another second time birth story that was shared earlier in the podcast who shared a deep grief process, a similar kind of challenge as she grew her family and was pregnant with her second as well. 

So that occurred to me as you were sharing that. 

Michelle (24m 45s): Yeah. And I will talk later about how I felt right after she was born, my hospital stay and being away from my son. Like I wanna, when I get there you'll hear a little bit more about the same kind of feeling. Yeah. My husband and I actually decided to take a one night trip away to Philadelphia in the pregnancy just so that, I was like I can't have the first time I'm ever leaving him overnight be when I go to the hospital. I just felt like that can't be my way to break the ice with this. I didn't know how I had to do something. 

So my in-laws encouraged us to just go away for a night and that was actually great. My husband and I really needed the night away and the sleep and just time together like before this new baby was coming. But when we returned, our son was like, he had a really hard time reuniting with me and so that made me really nervous of what was gonna happen when we went away to the hospital for two nights, three, however long we would likely stay. But I didn't let that I, I just, I also know, as like an educator who works with young children, that it's very normal to reunite and have an emotional reaction rather than like this overwhelming happiness to see you. 

He was happy to see my husband but he was overwhelmed reuniting with me and it took him a couple of minutes or like an hour to really wanna come connect with me again and it was hard. So, but I'm happy we did it and that the first time leaving wasn't the night we went to the hospital. 

Lisa (26m 16s): Right. Yeah. Yeah that would, I can see how that could be a harder time to process that. A little bit of a feeling of rejection temporarily. 

Michelle (26m 24s): Yes. Yeah, yeah exactly. 

Lisa (26m 25s): You've just given birth and you're in a very raw space. 

Michelle (26m 28s): Yes. That's why I was like I don't need it to be when 

Lisa (26m 32s): That's such smart foresight. I've never had anybody share that brilliance, that's such a smart idea. 

Michelle (26m 39s): I encourage, I look and we don't, we're not away from our kids often. It's very few and far between but you know, that was something that I knew was gonna be so I'm happy that we did it. Yeah. But that was actually not so close to the end of my pregnancy. It was like somewhere in the middle. So it was a long time again until we had the baby. But that's pretty much it as far as prepping for my prepping for everything. The only thing I'll add, which I'll talk about the day that I did eventually go into labor was that those last few doctor's appointments when the month nine we were like going every week, 36 weeks, 37. 

My blood pressure was increasingly like rising every time. I don't think It was scary concerning high, but it was higher than my normal. So that was something that was like a trending thing. Every time I went into the doctor It was like, well let's check your pressure. I actually had my husband bring home a pressure cut from work just to have it home in case I ever felt unwell or let's just have this in the house so that we can monitor if needed. So that was on everybody's mind And in those last few weeks I just remember, like I said, so much prodromal stuff. 

Like I would have waves at night through the night and then to wake up and be fine and or I'd rest and be fine. And I was texting Chana a lot. Think it's think it's gonna be soon. I think it was always like it might be today. I didn't know what to expect. I had a spontaneous labor that started with contractions with my first, so I was curious if it would be the same. And then I guess, I guess I can start with the day she was born, which was, yeah go right into it on, it was on, it was a Thursday, it was April 20th and it was my 39 week appointment. 

So I had been taking our son to a lot of the appointments with us, which was like fun but also crazy. Like he was one and a half. I was driving into the city because I didn't wanna be like waddling around on transit with him and walking a lot. So I was driving to the upper west side. Every appointment came with me in the stroller, just me and him to the appointment. Everybody in the office got to know him. So it was cute. It was like a cute ritual. But this actual appointment, my last one I went without him. My husband was able to stay home a little later that morning and I had an early morning appointment so we worked it out that he's like, If you think you're gonna be back by this time, like just go and I'll stay home until you're back. 

So it was good. He was home with my husband and I went to this appointment and I knew every time I went that they were gonna talk about my blood pressure and we were gonna have a conversation about what to do and how to monitor. So sure enough I went in and the first thing they do is take my blood pressure and it's like higher than I guess they'd like. So It was like in the one I wrote in my notes, I was looking back at some text messages with Hana. It was like 1 45 over like eighties. So they took my urine, tested that and before I know it, my doctor comes in, Dr. Taylor and she's, you are not gonna be pleased with me but I think you should go to triage. 

And I'm like, why? I'm like, I don't think, think I'm, I'm fine. It's not that high and can we take it again? And we took it again and she was like, listen, this is not like a one-time reading. We've been seeing this trend the last. And she's like, no, you don't wanna be induced. I know that. I know like she, she really knew my plan. She's like, but just go in and let them monitor you for two to three hours. I need to see if these are real readings. Now I had taken my blood pressure the day before at home and it was normal and I had taken it because I was getting some like vision stuff and I knew that could be like a sign of something that would be dangerous or preeclampsia. 

Actually I think It was a contact issue like my, but I took it and it was normal. My husband took it and It was like one 20 is over. So I, so my doctor took that into account. She's okay, like you're saying, it was normal yesterday. We are seeing a tie here today in the office and of course you're anxious and this and that. But she was like, I need to know that these readings are real and I need them to monitor you for two to three hours and take your pressure every 15 minutes on the cuff so that we could see what is happening. So she was, well you can go straight to the hospital and have your husband meet you and she I think threw in and bring your bags. 

I knew at this appointment I knew I said, they're not gonna let me go home. I just knew it. And you know what, I was really upset about it and I really wanted to go into spontaneous labor at home and stay home as long as possible and go into the hospital. Not being in active labor was never my plan. But you know, the mom in me also wanted to do the right thing for my baby and make sure that everything was okay. And that being said, the mom in me could not go straight to the hospital and not go home and say goodbye to my son. 

So I said to my doctor, I will go but I'm not going right now. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna set my son up to be sent to his grandparents' house for the next two days in case I stay. I need to say goodbye to him. I have to do it. I wanna get my things, I wanna eat lunch and then I'll go. And she was like, okay. It was like nine 30 in the morning. So she was like, I really think you need to go to the hospital around noon. Now another thing was I knew she was not on call 'cause she was seeing patients in the office. 

So I'm like, well who's there? Because now I need to know if I'm going to triage, who's the possible provider that's there. So she was like, it's Dr.  Nabizadeh, which if you know of like my practice and Cornell, she is just, she's a trip, but she is just one of the best doctors in that practice. Dr. Bradley delivered our son, who was also another amazing provider there. But I love their whole team. They worked together. ND Birth centers like that, they're just, they're, they're to me for an OBS office mostly at the end of the day it's still a hospital. 

They're still, they're still doctors but they always listen to what I have to say. And I think they know that If you are educated on birth and what to expect and what your wishes are and you have to stand your ground, they're willing to work with you. So I was happy to know she was on call. We went home, I went home, we said goodbye. I called Hana, I'm like, Ugh. Like they're sending me in and she was like trying to bring me down. She was like, maybe you're gonna go home. 

Let's see one thing at a time. I was like, I know it, I know I'm gonna be there. I know I'm gonna go get into an induction, I just know it. So we went home, we said goodbye, we packed up our things. My father-in-law came and picked up my son. It was so hard. And then we picked up lunch on the way to the hospital because I said to my husband, I need to eat like a good meal now because we don't know what they're gonna do. So we did that and I ate on the way to the hospital and I will say it was so do you remember what you ate? I'm just curious. Yes, I ate, I know exactly what I ate. 

I ate an overnight oats bowl from so bowl with all fruit and peanut butter and It was like carbs. Let me get something that's gonna be, it's like a protein. Yeah, protein and carbs. I didn't wanna eat anything that was too high in salt and get my pressure even higher. So I was like, let me stick with oats, that'll be good for me. So I ate that on the way I was, but I was really anxious on the way to the hospital. I remember I was forcing myself to eat. I really didn't have an appetite. I was really anxious about being in the hospital and being totally physically, what's the word? 

Like feeling fine. I wasn't in like labor. I was having contractions that were coming up on the monitors, but they were nothing to me. I was, if they didn't read them on the monitor, I wouldn't have even known I was having them. I just, the last time I showed up at triage, I was seven centimeters dilated in active labor and like my mind was not even present to what was going on around me. I was just focused on getting in, admitted and having my baby. And now I am at the hospital totally clear headed. My anxiety is so high because I'm so aware of what's happening and they're gonna be monitoring me and they're gonna talk to me about all these options for induction. 

I just knew that was like the road we were headed down. So we showed up, we went into triage and it was really funny, like before Dr.  Nabizadeh came in to see me in triage, the first person besides a nurse who came in to see me was like a PA. And everything was just, even my husband picked up on this right away. Everything was just very urgent. It was like as soon as I walked into triage, they already had me down to be induced and I was just kept, I really stood my ground. 

I'm like, I'm here to be monitored. That's why I'm here. I'm not here to, I don't know if I'm gonna agree to any of this, any of these suggestions or whatever you wanna call it that you have for me. Like I'm here to be monitored for two to three hours because that's what I was told I had to do. So let's do it. So I don't think the PA loves that she was, you know, well your brother, you had gestational Hypertension and whole song and dance. And I was like, I understand, but you know, let's do the blood work. Please check me for preeclampsia, take my urine again, put the cuff on, monitor me up. 

I'm gonna lay here for two hours. So everything, like I said, not emergency but urgent. And my husband and I were just sitting in the triage room, we're gonna have to sit in here for two hours and see what they say. So Dr. Ade eventually comes in, she's like, I said, she's such a trip. She's so casual. It's very funny. She comes in and introduces herself to my husband, like by first name Sean Za. Just, and so she's, what's going on, Maria? My doctor Maria told me you were coming. 

They're like best friends, Maria told me you were coming. She told me, you don't wanna be induced. I know, but listen, she's like, sister, your pressure is high. We gotta, let's see, let's see what, and I'm like, I don't want Pitocin, I don't, I'm going off the trails and she's one thing at a time, let's do you wanna do a cervical check? I'm like, sure, let's see where we're at. She's like, look, you're having attractions. We see them. And I'm like, well I don't feel them. But she's, oh, you're having them. Like they're coming. We see the waves. Did a cervical check. I'm like, nothing dilated, like a centimeter or something, but at the face and everything was soft and ready to go. 

And so I suggested, can we do a balloon? Can we start with a Foley balloon? See if it ramps anything up before we do any, anything else, any other, what's the word? Medications or interventions? Interventions. I'm like, what's the intervention? So she says yes. She goes, but she says, so are you agreeing that we're gonna start the process basically? And I'm like, I guess so now I'm like, well I said goodbye to my son, I'm already here. Let's go now. I wanna meet this baby now. I'm like, and like I said, my anxiety was just, it was really high and I just, I think the thought of going, she wasn't offering for me to go home, but the thought of fighting to go home felt harder than agreeing to stay. 

And I could say in hindsight now that I'm happy with my decision because of the way things turned out. But it was really scary then because I didn't know how things were gonna go. One funny thing is that my husband kept asking every nurse and he's so I think for a husband, like pretty well versed birth And he took our, we took your class together virtually. And so he, he knows a lot but he just kept asking like, well how long do you think it's gonna take? Every nurse, every doctor, how long? And everybody kept saying, well induction could take 18 to 24 hours. 

And after the fourth time he acid, I was like, stop asking that. We don't know. We dunno. Nobody knows everybody. Nobody knows. Everybody is different. We don't know if my body's gonna take, I don't need to keep hearing. It could take 18 to 24 hours. Not saying that. So that was like my, And he stopped asking that question. And I think one more time before I got admitted and put in a room, I said to Dr.  Nabizadeh, well what would just happen if, what would happen if I just went home? 

And she was like, look. She was like, I'm not gonna argue with you. You can sign an AMA and you can go home. She was like, but If you go home and your pressure spikes and something goes wrong, I don't have a leg to stand on and I don't know how to say I can't send you home. Like I can in confidence send you home to monitor at home. I just can't do it. And that was like enough for me to just move on. So we get admitted, but I was still like, all right, well let's ease into this. This all happened within an hour. 

I wasn't even there for the two to three hours to be monitored. They really just had their plans for me as soon as I walked in the door. So now I'm being admitted and we still didn't have a set plan. Am I gonna do the balloon to start? Am I gonna do, they didn't think anything else was really a good option, like a CIL or side test. Like it just, I didn't need that. She was, we could do the balloon to see if it helps you like dilate a few more centimeters and maybe things will start to ramp up. Let's see if your water breaks. Like things like that. So I was admitted, this was around, I'm looking at my notes like three o'clock in the afternoon and as soon as I get into my room, the nurses, there was one nurse that was actually in training. 

She was on probation, like in initial training. And then another nurse that you could tell was like a veteran nurse at that hospital. And this veteran nurse was just very pushy. She was like, well I'm gonna start your IV now. And I was like, hold on. I just sat down in the bed. I was like, well wait a minute. I, I don't know if I'm starting with that. I don't know if I want any fluids right now. I don't know if we're starting the Pitocin. I, we just talked about starting with the balloon and she was just very much, you're here and this is what we're doing. And she got a little aggravated about it. 

Then somebody else came in. I finally agreed to put the port in so we could get that taken care of. I am not good with needles. So I was like, you bring your best person in here to do it. And it was funny because yeah, the first person who tried was like, she kept looking at my arm to, and I'm like, this taking you this long to look. I can't, you gotta somebody else. So they got it. They brought somebody else in, she put it in. I was not happy about it but it was in. And honestly before I knew it, I mean I think, I don't even remember agreeing to start the Pitocin. 

I think it was just going, I all of a sudden I was hooked up to fluids and everything, but I was fine. I was just in bed hanging out. I was trying to watch tv. My mind was elsewhere. I was thinking about my son. I was anxious about all this getting started and how long it was gonna really take and, and then I was just beside myself about being hooked up to Pitocin because all I heard was that Pitocin causes such strong waves and contractions and was I gonna be able to do what I did last time and give birth without an epidural? 

I really didn't want an epidural. I knew my body could do it. I've done it before. I knew what to expect or what I thought I should expect. So I'm hooked up to everything. Another doctor comes in, somebody who works with or under, I think It was like a resident under Dr.  Nabizadeh. And she comes in and she says, okay, I'm thinking about do you wanna do the Foley balloon? It's up to you. We don't have to do it but it, you're open to it. It could help beat things up. And I was like, sure. And she was like, you might wanna get an epidural before we do it. And I was like, well I don't, I don't get epidural. 

I was like, I didn't get an epidural for my last birth. I'm not planning to get one. And she was like, okay. It's like, oh, If you already had a birth without one then it's probably fine. Some people say it's painful and uncomfortable, but you might tolerate it really well. So winds up she's, as she's prepping to do it, she's like talking me through it and my husband's next to me holding my hands 'cause everyone's making it like it's gonna really be uncomfortable. And it was fine. I was like, is it fine? 

Lisa (42m 29s): Did they tell you what your bishop score was? 

Michelle (42m 32s): I was looking back at my text from Chana and I don't remember, I remember she was like ask and then maybe it got lost in translation. I don't remember if I asked. I don't remember. 

Lisa (42m 42s): Yeah, I'm just so curious because it seems to me in my years of doing this work that the more ripe and effaced and dilated and ripe and ready your cervix is, the less painful it tends to be for people. Yeah. And the lower, the less so, the more painful. 

Michelle (43m 0s): I think I was pretty ripe and ready. I just wasn't very dilated. I was like maybe over a centimeter, like one, one and a half. So they were, I remember asking, I wrote my notes, I was like, well If you put this balloon in, can I get up? Can I go to the bathroom? Can I, and they were like, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I was already annoyed that I was hooked up to a pole now that I would've to travel with said pole. Because when I had my son, I was hooked up to nothing and I was all over the place. I was on all fours and running around my room and I was like, I just wanna be moving in this labor. 

So they put the balloon in, I'm laying down trying to rest. Hanah keeps texting me, just rest, rest. I don't know how long it's gonna take. So all you can do right now is rest. And I was like, don't come here now to her. Like no point. I'm just laying in bed, I'm trying to watch Aladdin. I couldn't even, you know, focus on trying to watch a new movie. My, my husband, do you wanna watch something? I'm like, no. Like just lemme just try to rest. I couldn't sleep. I was trying to close my eyes and couldn't sleep. And then so quick, maybe half an hour goes by and all of a sudden I am wet, like leaking, like something is leaking out of me. 

So I get a nurse and I'm like, Hey, is this, is this my water? What's going on? Is this normal? Never had this before. I had a holy balloon. So she's, oh she looks, she's like, yeah, I think your water broke. So I'm like, okay, that's good, right? And she's like, I have to call the doctor now. And I'm like, okay. The doctor comes in and she's, ugh, like sometimes when your water breaks we like to take it out because it could increase risk of infection. And I'm like, this is so annoying. Okay then take it out. But before I could take it out, before they, the doctor came in, I remember saying to the nurse, I actually have to get up and pee. 

I had to pee. And she was like, oh well now that you're leaking, like you can't get up. And I'm like, what? Like you told me, I'm like, you told me an hour ago that when it was inserted I could get up and now, so humbling experience. They bring me a bedpan that I could not, I just couldn't do it. I tried, I don't know if It was like a mental block, like I could not release my bladder. I was like, well I guess I'm just gonna wait until I get up and now I don't have to go. I don't know, it was just, it was very uncomfortable. I remember sitting in wet, I remember Chana texting me, asked them to put underwear on you and pads, like you don't need to sit. 

And they just left me. It was very annoying. So then that same resident doctor comes in and she's, well now I'm gonna take it out. And I'm like, you just put it in like this. This is so annoying. So they take it out and it helped a little, I think it got me out up to three centimeters dilated or something. But all that was left to do from what I was understanding was just ramp up the pitocin and wait. So I'm laying in bed, I think I did go to the bathroom laying in bed. I'm fine. Like I was having mild contractions. 

I wouldn't even call it cramping. But they're picking up on the monitor. So the nurse kept coming in and she's like, oh, you're really like, you've got a lot going on. And I'm like, do I like, do I have a really high pain tolerance? Like I feel fine. I'm watching a movie. I don't feel the need to get out of bed. I don't feel the need to move around. Like I'm just trying to relax. So for the next two hours, this is like four o'clock ish, four to six, I'm in constant contact with like family, whatever. I was so alert, I was just texting. Everyone updates. I'm with Chana and Chana's, you tell me what to do. 

Do you want me to come? And I'm like, for what? I'm fine. I don't need you to, I feel bad you can come hang out If you want, but you have a family, a life. You'll come when, when we need help. Like when Gus and I need your help. So she's okay, I'm gonna eat dinner, but I'm ready. Keep me posted. Okay. So I'm thinking this is gonna be a long night of me just, it's gonna slowly ramp up whatever. So now it's like seven. I looked back at my messages with Chana and I'm texting her from the hospital bed. 

I am still fine. I'm crampy, but I'm fine. I don't even wanna get up. I'm just trying to rest. I don't know what to tell you. Do you wanna head over? Do you wanna wait? What if it's fast? She's, I'm gonna head over by the time I get into the city and park my car. She was coming from Long Island, maybe you'll be ready to get up. But she was like, just rest, try to sleep. Like she just kept telling me to rest. And I was like, I'm trying Chana, but I can't even think straight. Like I can't even watch Aladdin. So my husband kept saying to me because they kept coming in and like looking at the contractions, oh mind you forgot this important fact. 

They stopped taking my blood pressure. So all this urgency, your pressure's high, your pressure's high, your pressure's high. They stopped. They would take it occasionally, but they took me off the electronic cuff. They were just coming in and it was so, it was bizarre looking back at that, it was so urgent for me to be monitored. And then I wasn't even monitored. But that is odd. Then the n Yeah, it was a little upsetting looking back. 

But then I remember around seven, the nurse, the nurses changed shifts and I really loved who was coming in. Like she was great who came in for the overnight shift and she was like, your contractions are really like ramping up. Are you okay? Do you are you're still like thinking no epidural. And I'm like, yeah, that's still my plan. And I was very honest with her. I'm like, just, you don't have to ask me. I'll ask for it if I choose to. But you know, don't. And she respected that. She didn't ask me again, but I think they were like, she was surprised that I was so comfortable. She, Pitocin was really high and you seemed fine. 

I was like, I'm fine, fine. I'm just gonna rest until I feel like I need to get up. And then Chana was on her way. So then I used that as my, I was like, well when Chana gets here, like I'll get out of bed and just start moving around. So I wasn't, so she texted me like, I'm parked, this is at 8 45. I looked back at my messages at 8:45 PM She's, I'm parked, I'm here, I'm on the corner, but if you're resting, I don't wanna bother you. And I'm like, no, come on. Like we're just hanging out here. And I was like, you know what? I should get up. Like the contractions now are starting to feel like where I need to move through them. 

Not painful, like manageable, but it was time for me to get out of the bed. So, you should just come. And when you get here between you and Gus will help me through whatever I need. I wanna get up and go to the bathroom, like I should get up. So she comes in and I'm like, totally, I think lucid and fine. But I remember, like, I had just asked for a pinball, like to come into bed with me and I was like, can you bring over like a yoga ball If you have, just so we have everything ready to go. Like I was thinking about my experience last time and how many hours I labored in all these different positions with all these different tools. 

So they got that all in and Chana comes in and she's like, all right, like, you look good. What do you wanna do? And I'm like, I guess I should get up. Like they're starting to get harder. And what was happening at that time was my contractions were coming like two back to back and then a break. So they were like doubling. So going through the two back to back would be a little hard, but then I'd have a break and I'd be fine. So I remember I like had a few waves while Chana first came in. She was trying to set the mood of the room, like, like putting out some, I think she brought like electronic tea lights and like she wanted the lights dimmed. 

And I was like, I guess so I was very just like easy going about it all I, I just thought we were gonna be there for this was gonna go on all night. So I was like, whatever works for you guys works for me. And then I was like, all right, you know what? I think I need to go to the bathroom. So my husband helped me and then Chana, I remember coming in, I don't know what happened, but I was sitting on the toilet and all of a sudden these contractions were like, they went from zero to a hundred. There was no warning. I just sat down and I could not get up. 

And I felt the sensations that I needed to go to the bathroom. Both. I had a pee and I was like, do I have to have a bowel movement? I couldn't feel exactly what was happening, but I was okay and then I was not. So this is at 9:00 PM now. My doc, Dr.  Nabizadeh, when the balloon came out, she came in, the balloon came out at four and I remember she came in and she said, I'm gonna leave you alone for a while. There's no need for me to check you. Your water is leaking, but you know, unless you are feeling something, if you're fine, we're gonna just wait a while. 

And she said, I'll come check you again in four or five hours. That's what I remember her telling me. So now it's nine o'clock and I'm like, oh my god, this is really intense. But the last I knew was at four, I was three centimeters dilated and I was fine. So we make our way finally out of the bathroom probably after 20 or 30 minutes between Chana and my husband and get me out of the bathroom. The nurse the whole time is like, all the stupid monitors that are wireless are falling off and she's coming and monitoring the baby. 

And she keeps telling me my heart rate's high. I'm like, my heart rate's always high. This is not new. So she, I remember we got over to the, like to the bed and I was like, gimme the ball. Like I need to sit. I sat in the ball, but now I'm like bringing the pole and to, it was just all so annoying. Like everything that came with it, the monitors, I still had my robe on. Like I was just not my, my gown. It was just all over the place. And I just couldn't believe how intense they got so fast. So in my head, I don't know if I said it out loud, but I remember being like, if this is just how it's starting, I'm, I don't know how I'm gonna need an epidural. 

Like I, how long can I do this? Like this? They were so intense, so fast. I was like, there's no way I, I, I haven't even hit transition yet. Or so I thought, I go, what am I gonna do? So I'm sitting on the ball and Chana's like, do you want music? And I'm like, sure. Like I couldn't even talk. And she's, I'm like, sure. And she, what do you wanna listen to? And I'm like, I don't care. She's like Taylor Swift. I'm like, sure. Like I just, anything to distract me. I'm like, sure. And then it's nine. By the time this all happens, I think It was like nine I remember because I kept looking at the clock, which I didn't do with my first at all, but It was like 9 45. 

And I was like, someone's gotta get in here and check me because I need to know where I stand and I need to make a decision because I don't know how much longer I can do this. So this is got there an hour ago, this is one hour later. Chana’s on one side of me, my husband on the other, they're trading off doing hip squeezes and stuff. And actually this is like the opposite of my last birth. With my first birth. I wanted my husband in my face talking to me and Jamie, our doula, doing all the work. 

This time Chana kept me, I don't know, she really was like calming me down and I just needed her like in my face telling me like I could do this and breathing with me. And my husband was behind me every contraction doing a squeeze or counter like that was always what had worked for me in the past. So we knew to try to do that again. And so he was behind me. Han's next to me, the nurse is there and I hear Dr.  Nabizadeh's voice and she comes in from the room, which is the door, the door to the room and is behind me. And I just hear her very casually, what's up sister, how are you doing? 

And I'm like, you need to check me. And she is all right. But it's only been, look, it was the timeline that she said, but I guess because I had been fine for, so I don't know. She was like, well, I was gonna come back in an hour. And I'm like, no, now. Like now. And she's like, well, are you feeling pushy? And I'm like, I don't know. These are so intense. I don't know. I need to know where I stand. You need to check. So she's, she's so calm and catch up, like, all right, get on the table. Like very, so I was on the birth ball, I remember I leaned over on the bed, she's like, all right, get up on the, get up on the bed. 

And I just stood up. I was so determined just to know. And I laid down and she did a cervical check and she was like, you're like just about 10 centimeters. And I was like, what? Yay. But I remember being like, like there was no, my husband, we were all like, our jaws were on the floor. I know Chana's like on the side of my bed and she's, I knew it and I'm like, what? You did not know it. Yep. I knew by your vocalization, you just, I knew you were in transition when you got to that bathroom. Like I knew it and I was like, what? 

What's going on? What's going on? You guys said 18 hours, it's been four hours. Like what? And not for hours of being in active hard labor. Like I was fine an hour ago and now I'm not fine. And now I'm gonna, now I'm about to push. That's, it was just, I could not wrap my brain around it. So she's like, all right, let's you wanna like do you wanna practice pushing? What do you wanna do? Do you want me to help stretch? And I'm like, I was like now getting a little nervous about it. 

So I'm like, I just want, yeah, whatever we need to do to let's go, let's go. So I don't even know when I started pushing this, maybe 10 o'clock. And what I do remember about pushing was that the baby, in hindsight, I don't think we really gave my body or ivy time to, what's the word? To rebound. Yeah. She just, from what happened, like from what I know happened, she just shut out in one big. 

So I think it was really hard. It felt harder for me to, it happened faster. She was born faster than my son. Like the pushing was less time, but it was way more intense 'cause I was just so determined. And, and then right towards the end, right before she came out, I remember Dr.  Nabizadeh saying we're losing her heart rate probably 'cause of the monitors, but you know, we might, you might see some faces in here. And then from what I remember after the peds team had come in, but then once the baby came out and was fine, they walked away. 

It was all very, very fast. But all of a sudden I was pushing and all of a sudden she was out. And it was so crazy because It was like she was born at 10, 14. So I just like thinking back, even my husband was, we could not believe she just was out so fast. And that whole very hard process was so short. The 

Lisa (57m 16s): Induction started, what, what was it? Three 

Michelle (57m 18s): Three. The balloon went in at three and then, yeah, three. And she was born at 10. Yeah. Look, from them telling me for all day it was gonna take 18 to 24 hours. And I, I don't think, I know that's relative to everybody else, to everybody's own story, but I just was so shocked that the hard part was so short. Like I said, it was fine till eight 30 and then I wasn't, and then she was here. So that was wild. 

Lisa (57m 48s): That is wild. 

Michelle (57m 48s): Wild. I'm looking at my notes like what happened after, well 

Lisa (57m 51s): And the fact that you, while you're looking for that, the fact that you, it seemed like you were having some waves, some contractions before they even started the induction. And so almost undoubtedly it would seem like your body was very ready and gearing up her things a 

Michelle (58m 7s): Little bit. I 

Lisa (58m 7s): Remember bit effacement and 

Michelle (58m 9s): Yeah, I remember Chana saying to me, I think I, when I called her, I, when I left the OB appointment that morning, I was hysterical in the car and I was like, I'm just gonna call you to tell you what happened. I was, and she said, you've been, your body's been preparing for weeks. You've been in prodromal labor, like you're ready to go. Even if that's what it comes to. She knew that's where my brain was heading, that I was gonna have to agree to an induction. She, even if that's what it comes to, you are ready. Like your body's ready, it's gonna do its thing. So it did and we were in shock and I knew we had an amazing golden hour. 

She latched right away. I had no issues like immediately postpartum. I had no tearing, which I did the first time. So that was like wow, an amazing experience. Having no stitches. It was just the recovery physically in that aspect was a dream. I felt great. I got right up and went to the bathroom and was able to empty my bladder did not happen last time. Like things that just were so much easier. My body was like just I know what to do. But it was crazy because she came out and I was in awe of her and that whole first hour of her on my chest was so amazing. 

We latched, it was great and I loved her so much, but all I could think about was my son. So it was this, we, I remember just feeling this overwhelming, like overwhelming feeling of missing him. Like almost, I couldn't believe he was missing this, this was such an important family moment And he was not there for it. And also this new baby, like who I love so much and instantly felt like I would die for her in that moment. 

But I was like, you are like a little stranger. And my baby is like back at my in-law. Like I, it was, I just, I wasn't prepared. I didn't think that she would come out and all I would think about was my first. So, and I felt like that like a lot of the hospital time too, just this, I really missed him. We would FaceTime him and sometimes that would help and sometimes that would make it harder. And it was just, it was really hard. And I think the hardest part was knowing that he didn't understand at all what was happening. 

And he was so little. He was a year and a half. So I was just like, it is, that was really hard. But going back to Ivy, she was just, she was a great little mama. She just, she slept and she ate and breastfeeding, I had only not been breastfeeding for a few months. Like I stopped in the middle of my pregnancy. So she had a learning curve for it, but I was surprised how quickly it came back to me. It felt like the last baby I had nursed was like a toddler. So it felt funny going right into a newborn again. 

But it just came back and very 

Lisa (1h 0m 60s): Different size mouths. 

Michelle (1h 1m 1s): It was different mouth, different size. I was just like, yeah belly. And she was so sleepy those first few days. We had talked about in my first episode how I really didn't sleep in the hospital and so I went into this hospital stay saying I'm gonna rest, I'm gonna sleep. We had no visitors. It wasn't even plans like that, it's just how it worked out. But I couldn't, I was like, my adrenaline was just too high. I was missing van, the nurses, everyone was in and out all the time like no rest. So that was hard. 

I wish I had more rest, it wasn't even the baby's fault really keeping me up or anything. She was great. She slept most of the time we were in the hospital. And then the only other little hiccups we had with her was that she failed her hearing test in one ear until we left the hospital. We had to go back two weeks later. Some of the providers thought it could be because she came out so fast that she wasn't rebounding and fluid was like just in there. They were pretty sure that was why. She also had a little bit of a murmur the first 24 hours of her life. 

But that dissipated quickly. These were all things they kept attributing to her coming out very fast. So I don't know how true that is, but that's what they told us. But she had 

Lisa (1h 2m 13s): No breathing problems coming out, right? 

Michelle (1h 2m 14s): No, no breathing 

Lisa (1h 2m 15s): Problems can sometimes when that's fast 

Michelle (1h 2m 17s): No, yeah, no breathing problems. But they said the fluid in the ears was probably 'cause it didn't have time to expel. That would make sense. Yeah. But they were, they were able to discharge us. My son had drawn this, she did not. So that was like a great surprise. And yeah, we came home, we reunited with Van, which was great. We had a whole plan of where my in-laws brought him home to reunite with him first and then bring in the baby. He was so happy to see us. So that felt like great 'cause I was worried about that. 

And he was intrigued by the baby, but it was short lived. He spent the first, almost the first year of her life ignoring her basically. Now he'll try to play or push her but play with her, push her. But he, it was good in one way. He wasn't all over her where I had to be worried that he was gonna hurt her or, but all my memories early, early postpartum were just us, me nursing on the couch with the baby And he wanted my attention too. So he'd like bring me his biggest truck and put it on top of her and he'll give it to me and I was like, oh, like he hit her in the head a few times. 

It was really hard like when I was by myself because I only had one hand. If she was in one arm and I only have one hand, then I can only do you know so much. That was hard. But yeah, so that was our first few days. Postpartum was easier in a lot of ways because I had less complications. I had no tears and things like that. But I was really tired and I wasn't resting because I had a toddler and we tried to build in like family to help. But it wasn't as much help as I probably should have had. Looking back, my husband had to go right back to work within days. 

So it was good. Our moms would flip on and off who could come maybe in the morning when my husband was working all morning and not coming home too late. And then the days where my husband went in late, someone would come in and check on me like when he was working late. So we had a system but I still like, I wanted to keep up with my son and Chana kept telling me like, you've gotta rest. And I would still put them in the stroller and go on a nice walk because it was a nice day and I felt so guilty like being stuck in the house. And so looking back I should have done more. 

And the aftermath of that was what took me longer to recover. I bled for nine weeks. I actually had something interesting happen to me the first few days we were home postpartum. We came home from the hospital Saturday and on Sunday I had passed this large clot that I knew in my heart was not a clot. It was like something came out of me and I actually retrieved it like It was on my pad and I remember I took a picture and I sent it to Chana and I was like, this is this tissue, like what's going on? 

Like this is not a look. And she was like, do you care if I share with the doulas? And I was like, no, please share. And so I guess she sent it out to a bunch of you guys, I don't know. And she was like, yeah, like they're not convinced either. Let's keep an eye on it. Like watch your bleeding. I was like, should I reach out to like DOB? And she was like maybe let's, and I, it was funny, I'm usually a much more wait and see person. But now I felt this. I was like, I'm responsible for these like two little babies and if something is wrong and would like to be help, like I need to get help now and not later. 

So I was the one who was pretty insistent on being seen and my doctor did bring me in a week after I gave birth and she did an ultrasound. She took the specimen from me and sent it out for testing. It came back inconclusive if it was placental tissue or not a little weird, but she said if it expelled on its own, my ultrasound was fine. There was no extra thick lining or anything like that. If I wasn't having bleeding and I was feeling okay, we could just watch it and that's what we did. 

So that was like a weird thing that I hadn't had with my first birth. But then it was just, you know, we were home trying to navigate having two sleeping and eating and all that stuff. Breastfeeding went great. I did wind up going on antibiotics like in the first month IV was born because I had some pretty big clogs and I was like red and I think I spiked a fever one day but I wasn't super sick. I had had mastitis many times with my first, we had so many issues in the 16 months that we nursed just latch and clogs and I was pumping when I was working and it was a lot of this was just seamless. 

It was 11 months and she very sadly just self weaned last week like without warning. And so I have a nurse during a week and a half, which has also been another really emotional journey for me. But I know it's time. My body is ready for a little bit of a break. I have been pregnant or breastfeeding for three and a half years and so now it is my body's time to be my own however long that lasts. And that's her story. 

Lisa (1h 7m 15s): Yeah, I loved seeing your reflections. It was very emotional to read your reflections on her self weaning. 

Michelle (1h 7m 21s): Yeah, yeah. Recently it was, and it was a new experience for me because my son and I had to cut him off. And so, I made that decision. I loved our, even though our journey had its rough times, I just, I, I didn't know if I could be tandem nursing and I just felt that the right thing to do was to wean him with enough time in between the baby coming to really let us move on from that part of our life together so that like when the baby came, he wouldn't be too upset about nursing or not nurse. 

So we stopped from, he was 16 months and I was like halfway through my pregnancy and then picked it back up with her and she was, yeah, like I said, she was great and she is great now. She is a different baby than he was. She is independent and she knows what she wants and she just started sleeping through the night, which is different than our first. So I think having the second or any multiple after that, it definitely humbles you. You think what you're doing and what to expect. But every baby is different and every experience you have with every child's gonna be different. 

And so I've really been trying to hone into that and focus on feeling at peace with that. Because like I said, I just thought, well she's gonna do this by this time because that's when he did it and do this. And she is just light years ahead of him in some ways and they're just, they're different. 

Lisa (1h 8m 49s): Oh, different. And it's impossible not to compare 'cause it's your knowledge base, it's your experience that you've had with one, right? Or in the future more than one little one. Yeah. But they are so wildly different, right? 

Michelle (1h 9m 1s): It's so wildly different. So that's 

Lisa (1h 9m 3s): Fascinating. And keeps us on our toes, 

Michelle (1h 9m 5s): Keeps us on our toes for sure. Now they're finally getting to a point where I think van's understanding like she is here to stay. She's not going anywhere now. She crawls and trying to walk and chase after him. So sometimes he loves it, sometimes he gets aggravated that she's, you know, all in all his stuff. But I'm excited to watch them keep growing up together, excited for this time in my life now where I can just enjoy them and not have to be giving my body to either of them in any way. 

And I'm looking forward to the summer and spending a summer with my two little two little babies. Quick 

Lisa (1h 9m 45s): Question, going back to postpartum, did they recommend that you take your blood pressure when you went home? 

Michelle (1h 9m 51s): Oh yes they did. And shockingly it actually just started getting back to my normal in the last maybe two months. Took a long time. Yeah. Not that it was concerningly high, but I like historically have low blood pressure and it just, the last few visits I've had, different appointments have gone down, so, but they didn't once it mellowed out at a normal range, they told me I could stop taking it. I probably took it for six weeks or so, but even at my six week appointment, I remember like at my six week appointment with my first feeling like not a hundred percent but I was like, I'm back to myself. 

Like I feel it was not like that this time around I'm still bleeding. I was still feeling just not myself at all, like I said, because I really wasn't resting. So I think I just wasn't giving my body time to heal and I probably needed more time this time than the last time to do that. So that was a little tricky. 

Lisa (1h 10m 45s): Well, so are there any final words of reflection or wisdom that you'd like to share with expectant parents? 

Michelle (1h 10m 53s): I think if anyone's listening that's about to have their, it could be third or fourth or fifth child, but especially if it's your second, your heart does expand. It's the same and I think it's okay if it's not the same at the moment that they're born or you have these types of thoughts and emotions. Like I said, I felt earlier, whether it's guilt or grief or just sadness or fear of change. I think that's something that is so, could be so overwhelming. 

Just, you know, you know this one life for however long, you know it, I knew my life with just my son and was there for every moment for him that they found it impossible to imagine sharing that with another tiny person. But it does just, that girl now is just like my, you look at them and you have things that are, that you love about them that are different or you know, you love them in different ways and they have different needs but you love them the same. It's amazing. It's amazing what a mother, the parent's heart can do. 

All I will say is that it's normal and it's okay. And I'm happy I had those thoughts and I'm now on the other side of seeing how they don't need to be all encompassing that they came and they went and they were just thoughts and that was it. 

Lisa (1h 12m 12s): Thank you so much. And Michelle, I'm just so grateful again to you the second time that you had such a different story to share and that it can be such an encouragement, particularly when someone's body has given birth before. If an induction is necessary, it tends to go much more smoothly and be more efficient. And I know that the fact that you had made smart choices your first time around in shifting to a care provider with whom you felt more aligned, you felt more respected, you felt more heard, you felt like you had more choices. 

Yeah. And we're being listened to. That was one of the key choices that I just so admire in you. Thank you. And that you, that you, that also helped you have, even in an induction scenario, which was not your desire, If you could have designed your perfect birth so to speak, you wouldn't have chosen an induction. Right. But it's an encouraging story because so many people get it into their heads that if I'm induced, I definitely have to have pain medications. Then I would say for many people it is a harder road to go down, to go easy on yourself If you otherwise were hoping to have an unmedicated birth. 

But yeah, to see that it can sometimes play out in such a way that it can be manageable for some people in some scenarios and inductions. 

Michelle (1h 13m 32s): Yeah, and that's why I, I was so happy to share it with you too, because I feel like if I had heard maybe my story before it happened to me, that would've been something that I could hold onto and keep in the back of my mind that it's not an end all be all situation and it's not black and white. Just because it went one way for somebody doesn't mean it's gonna go that way for you. Because I think part of the whole experience of that day going to labor, going to the hospital and being induced, my mindset was just like, I just felt very doomed. 

I was like, well this is my faith now I, I had success, whatever my idea of success was the first time around, but now here I am and I'm probably not gonna have the same experience. But for the most part I did. So beautiful. Yeah. Thank you Michelle. Well thanks for having me again. Yeah, I really love talking with you. 

Lisa (1h 14m 24s): You too. Two things I'll just briefly comment on today, rebounding and Michelle being told she had to stay in the bed after her water broke in case you were curious about the term rebounding that came up in this episode, I talk more about what that is and the benefits of it. In episode 1 0 8, I found it interesting that they told Michelle that perhaps the reason Ivy didn't pass the hearing test was because she was born so quickly, which I assume means she missed some of the back and forth rebounding that the contractions and the breaks create. 

I'll mention that most likely the reason the nurse told Michelle that she had to stay in the bed after her water broke was due to a tiny risk of cord prolapse, which means that the cord slips out before the baby. Statistically the risk of this happening is 0.1% to 0.6% of all births. And those numbers would be even lower in most cases when we know that the baby is head down and well engaged in the pelvis. 

It's really not an evidence-based protocol to restrict someone to the bed after their water breaks just for this reason. And yet this happens in a number of hospitals. And then finally, I mentioned at the top of this episode that the previous episode was also on the topic of Hypertension. In that episode we talk about white coat Hypertension, ways to ensure you're getting an accurate blood pressure read and not getting misdiagnosed with Hypertension, considering having an at-home blood pressure cuff that's been tested for accuracy and more really valuable content. 

So be sure to check it out If you haven't yet. Okay, here's a sneak peek of what's up next time. 

Priscilla (1h 16m 17s): I found out that I was pregnant the end of April and we weren't really planning to get pregnant and we were really excited about it. And then I had a miscarriage about a month later. So that was just really difficult and heartbreaking, but very transformative just in terms of getting pregnant wasn't something that was necessarily hugely on my mind before that. We told 

Micah (1h 16m 40s): Our family and close friends and on the one hand that obviously was painful and complicated when we found out that we had lost the pregnancy, but I also don't think I would do it another way. But it did feel crazy to be going through something like that and not have the people that we were closest to know about it and be able to support us. So I think even though it was really hard obviously to have that kind of swerve happen, it was also really wonderful to have everyone kind of show up in that way. 

Lisa (1h 17m 13s): If you're listening at the time, this initially airs the 4th of July holiday is coming up in a few days. So something I'll invite you to meditate on this week is the idea of freedom and autonomy in birth. What does freedom in Birth look like to you? What does autonomy in Birth look like for you? Do you like the sound and feel of those words? Freedom in autonomy? 

How does this impact your broader choices of birth setting and care provider, or even things as granular as comfort measures and Labor Support. Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters podcast. We wouldn't be here without you, dear listener. And we are so grateful that you tuned in today. If you haven't subscribed yet, please be sure to do that. And If you can leave a review or a rating wherever you're listening to this, we'd be really grateful for that too. 

We hope you have a great 4th of July and we'll be back before long.